So many child haters here

Sabrinasummersamples · 2023-08-10T16:59:15+00:00

So many threads on here seem to attract the same sort of answer along the lines of -In my day we'd have got a smack. Never did me any harm. Give em a clip round the ear. -kids today are entitled shrieky brats -kids should stand for adults -kids shouldn't be allowed in restaurants Yet often those same posters are the first to call "agism" when people disagree. Why do so many people hold such contempt for kids? I mean I know kids can be annoying but honestly you could say that about any group of people. Plus we were all kids once 🤷

CoffeeCantata · 14/08/2023 16:40

Sabrinasummersamples · Today 16:01
Hysterical? Wow. That's a nice bit of misogyny there. I assume you think it's all the fault of the mothers then that kids today are a bunch of "entitled brats"

QED

I rest my case....

Original poster

Sabrinasummersamples · 14/08/2023 16:01

Hysterical? Wow. That's a nice bit of misogyny there. I assume you think it's all the fault of the mothers then that kids today are a bunch of "entitled brats"

OP posts:

CoffeeCantata · 14/08/2023 15:54

YABU

And a bit hysterical, if I may say so. People who expect parents to actually parent are not child haters.

71% agree at this stage so I think you'll have to accept that's the democratic view!

Original poster

Sabrinasummersamples · 14/08/2023 15:12

Also I come across times where families are blamed for having kids places where others don't think kids should be. I think as long as they're well behaved kids should be allowed in most places (as long as it's safe / not inappropriate obviously)

An example is my gym. There is a male changing room, a female one and a "family" one.
There are 4 showers, and no seats in the family one. The female one has 16 showers, and benches around the whole room, as well as seats at dressing tables.

The gym runs kids swimming lessons at set times and sometimes has 3 lessons of 6 kids at once. Thats at least 18 people needing 4 showers at the same time.
Now I have boys so I can't take advantage but if I had daughters I'd absolutely take them into the famale room. If places don't want people to do that sort of thing then they have to make the family facilities equivalent.

OP posts:

Original poster

Sabrinasummersamples · 14/08/2023 15:00

The thing is @ANiceBigCupOfTea I'd agree with you that that IS very annoying. The thing I can't understand though is when people have, say, 1 experience like that, and think that means that kids are awful or even parents are awful. I bet you also experienced another 200 kids in the weeks either side of that whose behaviour you didn't notice, because they were well behaved and therefore didn't draw attention.
I'm not saying I think YOU are a child hater btw. I'm sure you're not. But there are a lot of people on mumsnet who would use a single experience like that, or even 2 or 3 to suggest all kids / families are horrible badly behaved brats

OP posts:

ANiceBigCupOfTea · 14/08/2023 14:17

I think child haters is actually an unfair term for what you are describing.
I love children. But i don't love when people allow their children to run amok and have no respect at all for anyone else.
I was in tesco one day and a little boy ran at me and almost ran into me not once, not twice but three times while his mum just kind of stood there.
I understand totally that we all need to create a kind and loving society for children to grow and thrive in and happy as I am to play my part in that, the parents also need to understand that its not pleasant or nice or funny when exoeriences are totally ruined by children with no respect for boundaries or consequences of actions.

Green777 · 14/08/2023 07:33

Some of us would, nappies and all. Not many on this thread admittedly and that’s fine too.

Boomboom22 · 13/08/2023 23:51

Haha I think very very few people want those years back! Lovely as they were I'm so glad my youngest is starting primary and no more nappies, naps, potty training, tantrums due to no words are over.
Grandchildren in 10 or preferably 15 years will do fine thank you.

AngryGreasedSantaCatcus · 13/08/2023 18:23

Sabrinasummersamples · 13/08/2023 14:36

Of course there’s so much more to come and enjoy but who of us wouldn’t do anything to have that time back!

Me actually!! If I'm completely honest the baby and toddler years were literally the hardest time of my life. I always loved my kids (obviously) but I absolutely didn't enjoy parenting at that age. As they get older and become more their own people I much MUCH prefer it.
I may have been influenced by the fact that I had PND when they were teeny and then as toddlers they used to run in separate directions and it was terrifying (twins) but I think the experience of 1 baby or toddler at a time probably would have been different.

Same here. DD was the baby/toddler that didn't eat,sleep,talk,reflux you name it. Did I love her? Of course I did. Was she absolutely adorable? Of course she was. There's a reason I stopped at one though.

110APiccadilly · 13/08/2023 15:35

If my mother felt her best time with me was when I was unable to talk,

I have to say that I'm looking forward to the day my toddler learns that it is possible to live your life without a running commentary.

That said, I've found so far I enjoy my children more as they get older. I prefer a chatty toddler who wants to ask me questions and can tell me what she's thinking to a newborn, cute and lovely as the newborn was. I love watching them explore the world and learn new stuff.

ChristmasCrumpet · 13/08/2023 15:27

Sabrinasummersamples · 13/08/2023 14:36

Of course there’s so much more to come and enjoy but who of us wouldn’t do anything to have that time back!

Me actually!! If I'm completely honest the baby and toddler years were literally the hardest time of my life. I always loved my kids (obviously) but I absolutely didn't enjoy parenting at that age. As they get older and become more their own people I much MUCH prefer it.
I may have been influenced by the fact that I had PND when they were teeny and then as toddlers they used to run in separate directions and it was terrifying (twins) but I think the experience of 1 baby or toddler at a time probably would have been different.

Me too!

My youngest are also twins. And the first teeny tiny, asleep half the time, and critically couldn't sod off at speed in opposite directions bit was nice.

Between 1 and 2 when they had all the motor skills and none of the listening skills, one was a bolter, and the other a "carrrrrry meeeeee".....

Let me make it very clear. I absolutely do not wish to return to those days. Did lose the baby weight, plus some, ridiculously fast though

Original poster

Sabrinasummersamples · 13/08/2023 14:36

Of course there’s so much more to come and enjoy but who of us wouldn’t do anything to have that time back!

Me actually!! If I'm completely honest the baby and toddler years were literally the hardest time of my life. I always loved my kids (obviously) but I absolutely didn't enjoy parenting at that age. As they get older and become more their own people I much MUCH prefer it.
I may have been influenced by the fact that I had PND when they were teeny and then as toddlers they used to run in separate directions and it was terrifying (twins) but I think the experience of 1 baby or toddler at a time probably would have been different.

OP posts:

Green777 · 13/08/2023 14:20

5128gap · 13/08/2023 08:27

I'm responding to a poster that said the decision to work when you have a baby is 'hideous' and means you love your child less. Yet you choose to call me ridiculous?
I'm not saying some women don't enjoy babies. I'm saying that to elevate that stage of a life time with another person, over everything else that person offers you, as that poster did, is imo sad. Nobody remains a baby. To know your mother feels her best years with you were over at 2 years old, is sad for mother and child.

Show quote history

Ok I get it apologies.

But to me it isn’t sad to say those were the best years. Of course there’s so much more to come and enjoy but who of us wouldn’t do anything to have that time back!

bellabasset · 13/08/2023 14:04

I was with my dm until I went to school. She taught us to read, we went shopping with her, cooked with her. My parents were happy together and that family bond remained until we lost our parents

ChristmasCrumpet · 13/08/2023 13:41

Lig · 13/08/2023 08:08

I’ve just seen yet another thread this morning where posters are talking about tripping over young kids on purpose or ‘accidentally’ pouring stuff on them (they were apparently screeching & running around in a restaurant)

I just find it so odd, adults talking so casually about inflicting violence on kids. It’s pathetic.

To add a little bit of sense and context, I presume you mean a thread where parents are allowing their children to run around a restaurant and spoiling the (often expensive/treat) experience for others.

"Well that's what children do."

No, it's what some children are allowed to do when their parents have no consideration or regard for anyone else or the environment they are in.

So when a poster says, for example, just fling food at them, it's tongue in cheek, implying treating shoddy conduct with the deserving shoddy conduct in return.

But then you knew that really, didn't you.

5128gap · 13/08/2023 08:27

Green777 · 13/08/2023 08:15

Sorry but to say that you’d be sad if the best times of your mothers life was when you were a baby and had nothing to say is ridiculous. This is a very crucial time in a babies life not to mention how lovely it is to bond with your baby in those first years.

Not saying it’s wrong to leave baby in a nursery to work, needs must. But to write off the whole experience of mothering your baby in the first few years like this is just bonkers.

Show quote history

I'm responding to a poster that said the decision to work when you have a baby is 'hideous' and means you love your child less. Yet you choose to call me ridiculous?
I'm not saying some women don't enjoy babies. I'm saying that to elevate that stage of a life time with another person, over everything else that person offers you, as that poster did, is imo sad. Nobody remains a baby. To know your mother feels her best years with you were over at 2 years old, is sad for mother and child.

itsgettingweird · 13/08/2023 08:23

Issuefroth · 10/08/2023 18:12

Most children I have passed this week seemed to have been mid Summer Scream contest - not in distress- just shrieking for the sake of it. One today following their parent around the supermarket sounding out a constant high-pitch squeal - all the parent could say was “this way, Tobey*”

Well I guess that's better than the one in Tesco the other day who - along with her friend - kept doing it back and encouraging the kid.

I live opposite a park and the kids do shriek unnecessarily but it also makes me smile slightly because at least they are getting it out of their system in a sensible place.

A public play park is definitely the place to push boundaries on noise. A supermarket is not.

Green777 · 13/08/2023 08:19

5128gap · 13/08/2023 08:04

You may have some years in, but if you still believe the amount of love a parent feels and the outcome for their child hinges on being with them 24/7 for the first two years, I can't imagine your experience in those years has been very wide.
I've been a parent for more than 30 years. Also have successful independent children. Grandchildren now too. And I can assure you that there are acts of love and sacrifice that many mums make throughout that long journey against which the first two years are entirely irrelevant.
Not to mention that you are choosing to compare the most extreme situation you can imagine with being a SAHM. A cold hearted mother who'd leave her baby in poor childcare because she'd prefer to do a job you've chosen to deliberately to sound trivial. When the reality is most mums would no doubt select a better establishment than the one that employed you. And women these days are working in all sorts of essential and meaningful roles that were they to give them up to be a SAHM would make the world a poorer place for us all.
I'm very grateful the doctor who operated on my child (who had a child the same age herself who she presumably 'farmed' out while she worked) wasn't at home finger painting.

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I agree with your points however it’s safe to say nurseries are not the ideal establishments patents sometimes think for very young babies.

Green777 · 13/08/2023 08:16

Lig · 13/08/2023 08:08

I’ve just seen yet another thread this morning where posters are talking about tripping over young kids on purpose or ‘accidentally’ pouring stuff on them (they were apparently screeching & running around in a restaurant)

I just find it so odd, adults talking so casually about inflicting violence on kids. It’s pathetic.

Omg that’s disgusting!!!

What thread is that?

Green777 · 13/08/2023 08:15

5128gap · 13/08/2023 07:40

You described your time with your babies as 'the best years of your life'. Your children are adults, yet by your own statement no time with them has equalled that. Surely you can see that a mother valuing their time with a baby over that with their child at any other stage, as their personality emerges appears as odd to mothers who don't feel this way as not enjoying the baby years feels to you?
If my mother felt her best time with me was when I was unable to talk, could share little to nothing of myself and her pleasure in me came from what she did for me, rather than from me as a person, I'd feel rather sad.
No one is shaming SAHMs. You on the other hand are quite deliberately trying to shame mums who don't want to care for their babies full time. I hope you dont call your independent successful daughter hideous and a failure should she choose to retain her independence and success alongside having children.

Show quote history

Sorry but to say that you’d be sad if the best times of your mothers life was when you were a baby and had nothing to say is ridiculous. This is a very crucial time in a babies life not to mention how lovely it is to bond with your baby in those first years.

Not saying it’s wrong to leave baby in a nursery to work, needs must. But to write off the whole experience of mothering your baby in the first few years like this is just bonkers.

Lig · 13/08/2023 08:08

I’ve just seen yet another thread this morning where posters are talking about tripping over young kids on purpose or ‘accidentally’ pouring stuff on them (they were apparently screeching & running around in a restaurant)

I just find it so odd, adults talking so casually about inflicting violence on kids. It’s pathetic.

5128gap · 13/08/2023 08:04

fullbloom87 · 13/08/2023 01:21

@ChristmasCrumpet

Yes I do to be quite honest.
I've worked in nurseries and to be Frank a lot of the parents were rubbish. More interested in their friends and career then how their baby was fairing stuck in a crèche all day.
Cognitive dissonance is what it is.
You can't say a mother who drops her 4 month old baby to a big overcrowded crèche everyday because she'd rather go and work at the insurance company, loves her baby more than the mother who spends 24/7 with their baby and focuses 100% on being that baby's carer.
And you can't say the baby in the nursery will be happier either because I have first hand experience to tell you that baby is not as okay as you're led to believe.
I'm supportive of mothers going back to work early to make ends meet, but not for selfish reasons like not being arsed to sacrifice a couple of years for their baby.

You may have some years in, but if you still believe the amount of love a parent feels and the outcome for their child hinges on being with them 24/7 for the first two years, I can't imagine your experience in those years has been very wide.
I've been a parent for more than 30 years. Also have successful independent children. Grandchildren now too. And I can assure you that there are acts of love and sacrifice that many mums make throughout that long journey against which the first two years are entirely irrelevant.
Not to mention that you are choosing to compare the most extreme situation you can imagine with being a SAHM. A cold hearted mother who'd leave her baby in poor childcare because she'd prefer to do a job you've chosen to deliberately to sound trivial. When the reality is most mums would no doubt select a better establishment than the one that employed you. And women these days are working in all sorts of essential and meaningful roles that were they to give them up to be a SAHM would make the world a poorer place for us all.
I'm very grateful the doctor who operated on my child (who had a child the same age herself who she presumably 'farmed' out while she worked) wasn't at home finger painting.

5128gap · 13/08/2023 07:40

fullbloom87 · 13/08/2023 01:14

@5128gap

I've been a mother for 18 years. I go travelling with my daughters and without them , I have many many years of happy memories not just in the baby years.
I've always worked around them so have never missed out on anything. When I became a mum I did it to enjoy the full experience from baby to adulthood and that's exactly what I've done.
My eldest daughter has her own life now, own business, friends etc
Just because I was there for her when she was baby doesn't mean I'm this scattered messy women who can't let go. I have always actively encouraged my daughters to be independent and they have succeeded in doing so.

There is no shame in being a sahm and wanting to be with your baby.
Being a parent isn't a 'pick an option' that best suits you. You give birth and your job is to look after your baby, you don't get to pay someone else to do it just because you think 'oh it's not for me' that's just wrong. And as far as I'm concerned you bail out then, then you've failed at the first hurdle.

You described your time with your babies as 'the best years of your life'. Your children are adults, yet by your own statement no time with them has equalled that. Surely you can see that a mother valuing their time with a baby over that with their child at any other stage, as their personality emerges appears as odd to mothers who don't feel this way as not enjoying the baby years feels to you?
If my mother felt her best time with me was when I was unable to talk, could share little to nothing of myself and her pleasure in me came from what she did for me, rather than from me as a person, I'd feel rather sad.
No one is shaming SAHMs. You on the other hand are quite deliberately trying to shame mums who don't want to care for their babies full time. I hope you dont call your independent successful daughter hideous and a failure should she choose to retain her independence and success alongside having children.

Moglet4 · 13/08/2023 07:07

This made me laugh! I know sooo many people just like this!

ChristmasCrumpet · 13/08/2023 06:50

fullbloom87 · 13/08/2023 01:21

@ChristmasCrumpet

Yes I do to be quite honest.
I've worked in nurseries and to be Frank a lot of the parents were rubbish. More interested in their friends and career then how their baby was fairing stuck in a crèche all day.
Cognitive dissonance is what it is.
You can't say a mother who drops her 4 month old baby to a big overcrowded crèche everyday because she'd rather go and work at the insurance company, loves her baby more than the mother who spends 24/7 with their baby and focuses 100% on being that baby's carer.
And you can't say the baby in the nursery will be happier either because I have first hand experience to tell you that baby is not as okay as you're led to believe.
I'm supportive of mothers going back to work early to make ends meet, but not for selfish reasons like not being arsed to sacrifice a couple of years for their baby.

Oh dear.

You didn't even get it wasn't a question to answer.

You actually do think your child is loved more. Smh.