Psychopath

@whumpthereitis interesting that you're ENTJ, as I'm INTJ, and also CD on DISC (conscientious/dominant), and, errrrrm, I forget on OCEAN but it lines up with the other two.

I do not believe that ‘keeping the peace’ is the most important of considerations above all others, and it amazes me what people will put up with in the name of being seen as ‘nice’.

This bit stuck out to me, because I often get accused of giving advice on MN threads which is "keeping the peace", but that I see as just an expedient way to mitigate or resolve someone's emotional reaction regarding something I don't care about. My husband (mostly) appreciates this, funnily enough!

Hard to think of an example - but basically if someone has got wound up about something that isn't worth fighting over, I take whatever small and not-inconvenient I think right to fix it. Take the fight out of the situation. The downside being that if I misjudge and the person feels dismissed as a result, then obviously it's worse.

For me, I used to pursue relationships because I enjoyed sex, and I wanted a willing partner to be available and close at hand.

As I've aged, the sex is still a part of it, but the ageing has also made me far less tolerant of other people's foibles, so I no longer see the convenience of sex being sufficient to over-ride my dislike of living with other people. I have a partner, but we do not live together, which is an arrangement preferred by us both. I still get the bonus of a sexual relationship but without the nuisance of having to share my living space with someone else, plus the fact that we aren't in each other's hair constantly means that I actually do far more enjoy doing typical 'relationship' things like socialising, short trips, visiting places of interest, cinema and so on when we are actually together.

It was different when I was younger. I put up with the drudgery and infuriating parts of living together because I thought that's just what you had to accept if you wanted a long-term sexual partner, but I've since realised there are plenty of people who feel as I do, and understand that living together is not a compulsory part of long-term relationships.

I am totally aromantic. I see romantic gestures and acts as completely cringe and wholly unwelcome in a relationship, so I don't crave the closeness of being with a partner 24/7, I don't necessarily miss them when they are not around, I don't hang on the door opening and feel flutters when they come in from work etc. I still enjoy company when I feel need of it, but it has to be on my terms, and I don't 'dream' about futures with partners and so on because they're just an NPC really, and who knows?, I might decide next week I've had enough and leave them.

I've always viewed all relationships as soluble. It does not mean I am not committed, it simply means that I view the commitment as open-ended, and on a 'rolling contact' basis. It's why I don't really think about 'where will WE be in 5 or 10 years', because I see that as folly. Humans, or at least, my perception of the majority of them, is that they are needy and overly prone to emotion. I hate clinginess, so any sort of "what ARE we?/where are we going?/what do you want out of this relationship?" type stuff I see as completely ridiculous. It just 'is'. Live life in the moment, because you can not predict the future. Either of us could be hit by a bus, drop dead tomorrow, or just decide we've had enough of the other one. We might just fall out over something trivial, and that will be the straw that breaks the camels back.

I also do not see any merit in the typical financial boons to sharing living spaces etc. To me, people who become utterly dependent on a partner are fools. I can not for the life of me understand SAHM's for example. To me, it's tantamount to actively asking to be left high and dry. It doesn't mean I can't empathise with someone in a difficult position through no fault of their own, but I can't help feeling a bit 'more fool you, you opted to put yourself in a ridiculously vulnerable position to begin with'. I value and cherish my total independence above all else, and I would not sacrifice that for anything or anybody else.

My partner is a man who I work with, nit the same company, but a collaborator. He was married when I met him.

He started flirting with me a year or so ago. I flirted back because I liked the attention. We then progressed to meeting up for coffee and started hugging, then kissing and eventually slept together at Christmas.

He told me he loved me and I do genuinely love him too. He left his wife for me soon after Christmas and now lives near me with plans to move in at some point. He loves me because I'm different and because I pay him more attention than his wife did. She was always with the children and he felt neglected. I changed that.

I guess we're together because he's as selfish as me. I have no qualms about breaking up his marriage or him leaving his kids. He is a typical Disney dad but I don't care because I don't need a relationship with his kids and they are teenagers so will soon have their own lives.

In my experience- faking love at the beginning and controlling strategies after a while, dropping the mask.

@Namechange50008 Can't say for sure and I think mine was perhaps a narcissist but as far as I can work out it was a total lie. It seemed and felt like love but looking back it moved extremely fast relationship wise and felt off. That person I met vanished and became someone new entirely and did so multiple times throughout to where I am now where they have once again became someone new entirely.

Wasn't just a case of oh they are older now, everything they valued and stood for changed, the way they spoke, tone and saw things changed, their past and timeline changed. Like personality switches almost but they never reverted just a new persona that seemed to get what they wanted at the time. Had a different past than they actually did, which was fabricated or twisted in some way with a few truths thrown in, events never happened or were twisted from the truth to support this new character.

As for psychopaths not sure, but maybe there is some form of connection there in that circumstance rather than deceit.

Have name changed for this. I too have psychopath traits and I'm a narcissist.

I have no empathy for humans, yet I can feel it towards animals. I am more upset about animals being abused than I am children. I don't care about children and would rescue a dog above a child in a dangerous situation any time.

My world has to revolve around me and my needs. I have friends and family and I pretend that I care and that I'm a normal human being, but there's nothing there really.

It is exhausting trying to fit in and I'm a loner by nature so live for the times when I'm on my own, or just with my dog, so I can stop pretending to be nice.

I know I'm cleverer than everyone I work with, but I pretend that it takes me longer to do things than it really does so I can get away with skiving for large periods of the day.

I lie to people about what I want from life and let them think that I am supporting my junior colleagues to climb the ladder. In reality I don't care about them and will shaft them to achieve what I want. I'm clever, so they don't realise I've done this so often that it makes me despise them for their weakness.

I'm not cruel, but I know I wouldn't do anything to stop a human from being hurt.

I have broken a lot of laws and have lied about financial and academic situations so people feel sorry for me.

I know I'm a despicable human being but I don't care.

I haven’t done the others, but I’ve consistently come out as ENTJ every time I’ve taken the MBTI.

I relate to a lot of what you’ve said. I take people for what they are, and it’s never occurred to me to pass comment on what they should or shouldn’t be/think/feel. Similarly, I genuinely don’t care if people judge me negatively or dislike me. I don’t fear it, and it doesn’t hurt my feelings. I do not believe that ‘keeping the peace’ is the most important of considerations above all others, and it amazes me what people will put up with in the name of being seen as ‘nice’. I’m not an anxious person.

I’m an observer - I prefer to sit back and read a person or situation before I either take action or make a judgement. I am good at reading people, so my cognitive empathy is well developed. I don’t ‘feel’ it, but I find that a lot of people are drawn to me precisely because of that quality. I’m not the person you’d seek out to sit and cry with, but I am the person that will give their honest opinion, and provide solutions to perceived problems. On one hand I have zero qualms about using whatever I have at hand to my advantage if I do believe it will be to my benefit, but I am generally a fair person when it comes to how I treat people. I’ve never been prone to jealously, or taking a dislike to someone for petty reasons. I just don’t care enough for that.

I am assuming I may be Autistic due to the way I have always felt since a child, my children and I did score high over the threshold on tests I was recommended to do. I still get confused with myself though as it feels weird, conflicting almost.

I don't know for sure but I would say I am highly emotionally intelligent to the point I am in full control of my own, if that makes sense. To me it's I can feel everything deeply, more than most I would say but I don't show it on the surface or let them take over and I can use my emotions as and when needed to process them. I can be upset or angry and inside my mind I am running through all scenarios, conversing with myself but keeping myself at a level state rather than them taking over. On the surface I have a default state, nobody generally knows my mood it seems, I could be very happy or find something funny and all will show is a slight smile. I've never understood people who hysterically laugh over most things that are to me, not funny at all or at best basic humor. As apposed to wit or in some cases sarcasm, which I find funny.

As for other people in general I am kind and helpful to most people. Everyone seems to like me, I've never had any issues but I don't necessarily trust people or care about those people. I have a longing to know people and I am very lonely but at the same time I can't just go out and meet people. I generally only need a partner and that it seems is my one blind spot or weakness when it comes to trusting people. Yet, other people in general such as groups of people I get a sense very fast who is who in the hierarchy of that circle, who is genuine and who is not, say at the workplace or social in general. I have always been on the outside looking in, I belong to no group, I am not interested in it.

Same as with you, I can read things or people talk about things that are a big deal to them and I just cannot understand why energy is being wasted on it. I mean I understand people have feelings and they worry, just like I do internally but not over small things or people who clearly are not worth thinking about. Same with frustration and anger. I see people lose their minds over such insignificant, material things or simple challenges when they cannot do something or things don't work or break. It blows my mind sometimes I don't understand, frustrating yes but find the solution to the problem, moaning or anger is counterintuitive.

I know people are selfish, I know people are who they are and I can't change them or expect them to change. I will mix with anyone I do not care everyone is on the same level to me, I don't look down on anyone, except those who have done wrong. However, I really struggle to process why people do things to me when I have shown nothing but respect, care or kindness and gone above and beyond. Generally those who take advantage or betray me I remove entirely, they are no longer on mind, they are not worth knowing.

This time though it's the worst betrayal I have ever experienced and I cannot remove them because they have the only true bond I have ever known. So I must endure once again and fight the illogical with logic and reason.

@thecatsthecats I would like to be more emotionally cool. Funnily enough I meditate to get there. Perhaps the traits you describe have a little in common with equanimity. Also cold-water swimming helps. Those of us who get too fearful could do with this.

Things like this make me wonder a lot about the correlation with personality profiles such as Myers-Briggs, DISC, OCEAN etc.

I always correlate strongly across these tests, and feel similar to you - high degree of emotional intelligence and emotional readings, but very different in personal response to that info.

I've reviewed several checklists of autism, NPD, psychopathy, the works. There's always a LOT missing, but a few dispersed ticks.

One thing that always fascinates me about AIBU is the sheer number of posts where I just wouldn't care enough to post.

Annoyed by a stranger in public? Well, some strangers are idiots, or just in a bad mood. It matters not.

In laws don't seem interested in your life? Good, I won't be interested in theirs then (and I have a great relationship with my in laws but I wouldn't care if it was non existent!).

Husband/friend/parent treating you badly all the time? Well, they can behave as badly as they like, but I can withdraw my company.

Part of it is learned self-sufficiency, but a bigger part of it is my head "running the numbers" - 8 billion people on this planet, can't please all of em. Won't try. Plenty of options.

I don't mind flawed people as long as I can understand and take account of their flaws - they'll be taking account of mine. But what I won't do is create expectations that are clearly counter to their personalities, not will I expect them to change.

I thought I wrote this post! Interesting how school staff have probably all come across one child like this.

The child I taught had no redeeming qualities. All the other "difficult" children I taught I had a massive soft spot for. This boy... No. And all the school staff felt the same about him

I am definitely not autistic. I can read emotions perfectly; my emotional intelligence is high, and I’ve never struggled to fit in in social situations. I can connect emotionally with people quite easily, it’s just there’s not an awful lot I actually care about whereas I find the majority of people spend too much time caring and it weighs them down. I do love my children and husband deeply, and I care about other people being happy, but more on a practical level: happy people = nice, neat, well running society. Also, neither of my children have any autistic traits, although one of them is highly intelligent and rather low empathy like me. We counteract this with a lot of love and talk about empathy and kindness towards others, and he is a very affectionate child.

Honestly, I think it is a sliding scale and - with the wrong upbringing - maybe people like us would be different, but I see myself as a very balanced person. I just like efficiency, and emotions are often incompatible with that. I am fully aware however that in terms of work from a management perspective, I work well when partnered with someone opposite - I can be ruthless and impatient, so tempering that creates the perfect team.

@XDownwiththissortofthingX Yep, anything and everything down to insignificant minor things that are done innocently. However, to them it wasn't done innocently, you did that on purpose just to wind them up.

I've had that with say curtain's and also found liked to have them drawn even in the day, living like a vampire. Curtains not straight, even, slight crack end of the world, rage.

Incredibly lazy as well to the point don't even put things away or drop packets in the floor and leave them there until you do it, could leave them there days. Extremely stubborn.The only time I found did any sort of cleaning was when I did an inadequate job, while they inspect. Would then redo everything I did, which was already done and then rage about it.

I had this running thing where bedroom would eventually end up a dump to the point I would have to do a deep clean just to breathe, while they were out socializing. Spend the entire day, make it nice, even lit candles as a nice gesture. Only for them to need a specific top, and proceed to empty the entire contents of the room back out again. Would then have to clean again in order to go to bed.

Impossible people to live with, seemingly unable to just exist without stress or some form of dramatic chaos. They do thrive on it, peace and stability does not compute.

@JibbaJab

I also recognise the seething rage you describe.

I found that the NPD I spent the most time around could not, in any way, cope reasonably with being 'defied'. Again, it was often something completely petty and inconsequential, and the sort of thing that any typical person might do without giving any conscious thought to.

So, for example, put the teaspoons into the cutlery tray facing in a certain direction, or do not remove that perfectly innocent and appropriate reference book from the shelf, read part of it, then return it to exactly the same place. I told you not to close the curtains. That sort of thing.

I don't believe it was actually about 'control', because in many other ways they could be entirely affable and laid back, it was more about being unable to appropriately process the emotions of anyone defying their express instruction, no matter how petty or inane the instruction or action was.

This would invariably provoke a seething rage in them, they would completely lose self-control, descend into an almost psychotic frenzy. Eyes bulging, barely able to string together a sentence, finger right in your face, and then the blows to the head would begin.

What I do remember is that oftentimes, the instruction would be so trifling that I would often forget entirely it had been made in the first place, only to find out hours or days after the fact, that I had transgressed, and of course, it only became apparent exactly what ridiculous instruction I had defied once the raging started. I remember once being left with a ringing ear because I had inadvertently left a curly telephone cable twisted.

Psychopathy although I'm not as versed in it but by what I have read and previous posters viewpoints, makes sense to me in a way.

That to me is similar to how I think in certain aspects but perhaps on a broader scale. A logical view with clear understanding of consequence, even if it is only for their own benefit, there's reason there and they act accordingly. I would rather talk to a psychopath than a narcissist, and would likely appreciate the raw truth or unfiltered opinion than smoke and mirrors.

Like the previous poster who said about their view with leaving a baby outside if there was no consequences. Most people would be appalled just reading that. I can read that and appreciate their honesty in even writing it, I don't agree with it but it's not actually happened, that baby doesn't exist, hopefully. A view into someone elses mindset, a mindset totally opposite of mine, it's interesting.

I'm sure there are dangerous psychopaths out there but not sure how common that is in reality. Serial killer wise I suppose you could say that perhaps psychopaths would be more effective at it than a narcissist. I don't think a narcissist could keep up with everything they had done to get a decent run in. They would lose themselves in their own web of lies or make so many mistakes they would slip up.

Oh yeah it's a very much a case of a loose cannon firing drama that does not exist, then being spiteful, vindictive and in my case violent over it.

You can do something nice and caring for them and an hour later you are seen as uncaring. Absolutely no appreciation or gratitude for anything, it's quite disgusting to be honest.

It's not even things you have done either they actually go out of their way to construct situations themselves in order to create conflict. Or, they demand you do something like a day out or holiday even though it doesn't make sense to do at the time but you can't refuse so you do, only for them not to want to be there and destroy the entire time for no reason at all.

There is no logic to it and at the levels I had it was pure insanity, there's no other way to look at it. I had instances of some issue being brought up, belittling, spitting venom with demonic looks. You're there trying to discuss calmly, figuring out what the issue is, only for the issue to become something else entirely. All the while you are calm you're being accused of being aggressive. You say...but hear how you are talking to me, look at your current state, I'm not being like that, you are shouting, I am not. Only for them to scream in your face, denying they are shouting.

They are not firing on all cylinders at all and there is in some cases like mine, a sadistic element to it where they get off on physically hurting or doing things to you when you are not aware.

You ever see them blankly gazing off lost with a sinister smirk on their face and you are like....what's so funny? Huh, what...oh... nothing.... nothing.

Hmm.

Yeah, I've had it suggested that I am as both my children are Autistic but it's hard to get a referral.

I've always been like it since a young age, I think differently, never really fit in with others and I'm fairly solitary. I don't have friends or need them, the only thing I seek is a relationship and a family of my own...which I had but I seemed to have chose a narcissist and they've been taken from me. >.<

Never quite understood loss until now.

*play fast and loose, obvs

@JibbaJab

Yes, its the total unpredictability of NPD that I find difficult. Both types can be harmful, toxic, nasty, abusive, etc etc, but like I said before, I can almost comprehend the thought processes of psychopaths because they tend toward clinical, no-nonsense, black or white decisions, whereas NPD is often totally irrational and will create merry hell over perceived slights that simply do not exist, and it's sometimes only well after the fact and with a lot of distance that you realise just how disturbed and removed from reality NPD 'logic' can be.

A previous OP mentioned psychopaths often having a strong moral code, and very firm sense of justice, or what is 'right and wrong', and I would agree with that. There is always an arbitrary element to it, and even then I can understand that because I personally struggle to empathise with any situation that I have no personal experience of, but I will fight tooth and nail for anyone that has been through a circumstance that I have personally experienced and felt was unfair or unjust. It's not a 'sense of justice' in the same way that people think of legal justice, more a 'personal concept of natural justice'.

With NPD, there is no 'set of rules', because the grievance will be an outrage to them one day, but then they will happily administer the same treatment to another person the next day, with seemingly no recognition of the fact that they were distraught about experiencing the same thing themselves. What is claimed to be right or wrong is completely scattergun and changes on a whim.

With NPD I've always felt that there's an arbitrary pettiness, contradictory willingness to play hard and fast with what is right and wrong, and calculated degree of malicious, devious, nastiness that isn't necessarily there in psychopaths, but I would follow that up by saying the spite doesn't always manifest itself as big, grand, long-term schemes to undo a 'rival', it's often just ridiculously petty, infantile, immature, and see-through nonsense, but NPD's seem to live for it, which I just can not understand.

As well as being dispassionate and detached, I also have absolutely no tolerance for 'drama', but the NPD people I spent time around seem to thrive on it and positively require it in order to have a purpose, whereas I just laugh at the petty, infantile, simple-minded nature of it and walk away. Drama-llamas I just roll my eyes at, because I honestly can not see the point myself, yet both NPD's in my life would be described as "Drama llamas" by anyone who knew them reasonably well.

This sounds a bit like autism.
Strong empathy and caring, but only with people you know and are close to. Logic and strategic thinking, to the point of almost 'seeing the future' because you see the patterns and how they will play out. Strong sense of right and wrong. Unselfish and basically kind.

Well, if you read my posts thoroughly you might have picked up on a couple of things:

1. I don't meet many of the traits for psychopathy, and the situation did take a big emotional toll on me eventually, faking or not.
2. I am not actually an emotionless robot. I am just examining my emotional detachment and compartmentalisation in a specific work scenario.

You're giving quite a lot of weight to my clinical, detached assessment of my behaviour, but I feel that I've also tried to be clear that this isn't the full picture of who I am.

And to be honest - yes, I think I did an adequate job of faking responses in situations. Especially where it was a "shit, someone is crying on my shoulder, what do I do" moment. People told me when they had problems with me or my decisions to my face, so I doubt fear was an element. And they heartily took the piss out of me too!

And most of all, I made people happy with actions, not words. I don't think it's that mad to think that people who took the piss, spoke straight to me, and who were enjoying a cut in work hours, increased pay, increased autonomy and above all, a workplace where people didn't scream at each other believed that I was a good and caring boss for making decisions that benefited them.

And you really don’t think they see through your fake behaviour? That it doesn’t leak through in ways you can’t see ? They don’t pick up on your lack of feeling or question your faux concern?

@XDownwiththissortofthingX That's what I experienced of potential NPD, I knew what would be a trigger but would never know what the tool of choice would be, so to speak.

I have seen anger from plenty of people, including massive meat house men but I have never seen anything like the levels of rage as that. Like a raw primal anger without limits.

All the other tricks in that box are bad enough but that rage is something else.

I know one, he's in jail for attempted murder.