Psychopath

I've known two people who I think were on the spectrum of sociopathology.

One was a bastard, certainly a liar and abuser, including of animals.

The other I was quite fond of and would consider a friend. I don't think he'd have used the terms psychopath or sociopath for himself, but he was aware that he was different than other people and his emotional responses were very muted. He did have a definite moral code, but he arrived at things from a very different perspective than most, and occasionally would have what seemed to me a very out there idea on something Sometimes something most would consider problematic which he thought was fine, but also occasionally something most people thought was ok, he was unexpectedly (at least to me) against.

A lot of his morality or approach to personal relationships was built around loyalty and a certain kind of reciprocity, though there were a limited number of people, like his kids, who he had real affection for, and I don't think he ever contradicted his mother. He was rather delinquent in his youth, but I knew him when he was older and he's come to what seemed a somewhat pragmatic conclusion that society was better when people generally followed the rules.

Yes, I am sure my ex is a psychopath. Very scary. I saw the “mask” drop a few times. I can totally believe that one percent of the population is like this unfortunately.

@Haretest
Thank you for sharing that.

I score 25 on Hare and drink black coffee 😆

I know my friend group doesn't catch yawns and they're definitely not psychopaths.

I score highly on the Hare checklist (except the ones referring to crimes). I've also had threads on here in the past about my lack of empathy.

The best way I can describe it is akin to masking. I know what is sad or happy and I perform sympathy/empathy. And I want to be accepted as genuine for that, and for people to think I'm good or to like me, but I can't actually imagine what something feels like.

I also struggle a lot with not feeling guilt/remorse when I've done something that hurts someone, because it doesn't feel real to me especially if I don't know them. But I don't set out to hurt people (like an abuser would), its more that I don't think about it. There's lots of things that might hurt someone which I wouldn't do as I know it's bad, but if the pain wouldn't be seen by me then I probably would.

What was his relationship like with his parents? He sounds incredibly scary.

I saw the documentary with that neuro scientist and it was fascinating.

Yes but none of the the traits like charming, manipulation etc! Highly intelligent, very realistic, completely emotionless but very generous!

I think for some they might not be afraid of the consequences but still know that they don't want that consequence, which is why not every psychopath will kill a person who angers them but it's not because they're afraid of being caught, and it's not due to a moral compass, it's simply because they don't want to be inconvenienced.

IIRC there are structural differences in certain areas.

And you can think of fear as two distinct things:

1. Something which stops us doing the scary thing in the first place
2. Something that is an emotion we experience while the scary thing happens

Psychopaths lack the first, which seems to make them seek out and/or not avoid scary things. And possibly enjoy the second. So they would jump over the wall into the Rottweiler's area because they aren't risk averse AND feel less fear while in the situation.

Of course none of these traits are sufficient to diagnose. Many other people lack types of empathy (ASD, sociopathy) or aren't risk averse (ADHD) and so on.

As my old psychology lecturer used to say, "we're trying to explain the complexities of the human brain with only the human brain. It's like trying to fix a hammer with a hammer".

if they're afraid of nothing and don't feel empathy then how do you stop them doing what they want?

You can't stop them. You have to disappear and become invisible to them.

The lack of fear is so interesting; I never knew that. So if a psychopath gets cornered by a snarling Rottweiler, they wouldn't be afraid? Is it something physically different in the structure of their brains? I am so intrigued by the idea of not knowing what fear feels like - I can see how that would make a person very different to others and how it could be a factor in being very successful in life (in the right circumstances). And it also makes that person terrifying - if they're afraid of nothing and don't feel empathy then how do you stop them doing what they want?

The potential one I'm thinking of has no real emotions and seems like a robot...

He has Neen white hot wifh rage but would nt shout etc... Keeps it under or on rod of cool. He sort if shirts up breath deeply and his eyes are going really odd but I doubt you would ever see him shout or bang something...

I find that extremely scary..

See my post about eyes!

I work with a child who I think might be a psychopath - they are certainly very similar in many ways to the description above. It’s a very sad situation and I worry for that child quite a lot. They are also very very hard to work with, because they are so abusive.

im not a psychologist though, so in no position to diagnose!!

We all assume psychopaths are murderers, but actually the psychopaths who have been the product of abusive/neglectful upbringing turn into the rose wests. The well brought up psychopaths turn into ceo's.

And racing drivers, fire fighters, rescue divers, all sorts. Anything where feeling empathy too deeply and caring too much about risk or other people is a problem.

My favourite psychopathy fact is about eyes. Pupillary response and startle response in psychopaths differ from typical. If you show people the following then both measure their dilation and puff some air in their eye:

A. Nice images (puppies/people smiling)
B. Neutral images (a table/a Hoover)
C. Nasty images (and eye hanging out/well you can imagine)

Generally our pupils dilate when we are emotional and our startle response increases the nastier something is. So a normal person would dilate for A and C and startle for B a little more and C a lot more. A psychopath would dilate ONLY for A and startle more for B than A or C.

Which could mean it's not that they can't process emotion. Rather that they process negative emotions more like the rest of us process positive. They process positive the same way we all do. And that could mean that putting psychopaths in positive, happy environments is very important, far more than for the rest of us.

TL:DR if you think someone is a psychopaths, watch a horror film and blow in their eye.

i'm a neuroscientist working in a closely related field, and I can confidently state that the 'yawning' test does NOT work.

If you had a group of psychopaths and a group of non-psychopaths and show them yawns, on average the psychopaths might yawn a bit less - say 5 yawns out of 10 chances rather than 7 yawns out of 10 chances like the non-psychopaths. but there is no way you can use that to make a diagnosis.

One of the strongest features of psychopathy is lack of fear and failure to recognize when someone else is afraid. Lack of guilt is also very common.

Also, psychopaths don't really care about punishment and don't learn from punishment, which makes is very hard to find ways to improve their behaviour.

I mistakenly told my kids this. Now when a yawn moves through us like a Mexican wave they are inspecting us closely. Sometimes when I'm driving I hear a "You didnt yawn you psychopath " 🤣🤣.
I'm yawning now just writing this #definitelynotapsychopath

I was thinking the same

I believe that I have met 2 in my lifetime.
One is a serial cheat. Charismatic and charming to draw people in. But has a horrible temper, very domineering, he is always right no matter what, arrogant and no empathy for others despite always telling people what a lovely and caring guy he is. Has various addictions and is a raging hypocrite. Uses people and discards when they are no longer of use.
Another one is similar in a lot of ways. Very vacuous and shallow. Lies a lot. Shocking lack of empathy, histrionic in her behaviour, fake, and very much uses people for what she can get out of them. Once she bitched for hours about her boss and him not being in work. I later found out that he was with his dying girlfriend (which she knew and conveniently didn't mention.).

A couple of points to mention- psychopath and sociopath are interchangeable terms. Psychopath is medical, sociopath was created by the media.

Be careful not to mix up psychopathy with narcissistic personality disorder. There is a lot of symptom overlap.

I taught a psychopath in my 2nd year of teaching. Raised it to the SENDCO and was ignored. He's in prison now.

Most successful politicians/world leaders would probably score highly on psychopathic tests. It is not a job for those who have genuine empathy whilst having to often make decisions that will harm thousands. Many long-standing politicians are charismatic or have very strong ‘character traits’. That’s the difference between someone like Johnston or Trump vs someone like Gordon Brown or Liz Truss. It’s very clear it’s not about policies in general, a great liar with charisma could convince the populace that a turd rolled in glitter is a bar of solid gold.

I don’t think I’ve met anyone in real life that is a psychopath. Certainly egotists and narcissists but not true psychopaths. There is one person on a social media platform though, the absolute scream psychopath in their behaviour and actions. I’d place a good £5 that they’d meet the criteria.

In many years of working as a doctor I came across lots of people who fulfilled the criteria for psychopathy. Some were patients, often with a formal diagnosis, or members of patients' families, and it was very easy for a well-intentioned health care worker with a belief that humans are intrinsically good to get pulled into these people's games and then given a kicking. Some were health care professionals, of whom many were very successful in their careers, adored by their patients, and often superficially co-operative but would drop a colleague in the shit for their own advancement or even just for their own amusement.