Psychopath

@marblesthecat Sorry to hear that, it's not nice and I think it's a power or dominance thing. You are kind of like a puppet in a sense.

That's also something that was a running thing in mine too, and although I'm a guy, it felt off and not on the levels of rough most would be okay with. Almost sadistic at times but generally a need or a demand, whether you agreed or not, to be physically hurt by them during in some way or an expectation to be so rough you hurt yourself or you hurt them. It was never enough, each time the bar was raised to a higher level of pain experience.

I mean...there's rough sex then there's you're going to do damage rough.

How do you distinguish between psychopathy and narcissim?

My mother is manipulative and self centered. She is jealous and bitter about anyone doing/having/achieving a thing she might like to have done/had whatever. She can be underhanded and hurtful - sneaking little digs into lighthearted convo when you're not expecting it and then she'll change the subject. I think the only reason she cares about anyone is wrapped up in what they can do for her, or for optics.

She's got a massive ego. Even now in her 80s - she's fully bought into the 'wonderful little old lady' guise. But 2 or 3 minutes in her company and out comes the real person, jealous and twisted.

She'll emotionally manipulate you into doing/being what she needs without seeming to think there'll be any consequences. In other words she's a difficult bitch and then acts all wide eyed and confused about why anyone would avoid spending time with her. Plays the victim perfectly.

Me? Although i put my hand up to psychopathic tendencies, i go out of my way to never say anything hurtful or awkward to people - even ones i hate! I would never wish to physically hurt someone. I don't like to inflict pain or discomfort - i just don't feel anything for them. If i actively dislike someone i'll be nice to their face but find a way to remove them from my life.

I know my flaws, and i will admit them. If i felt someone was doing something for me out of duress, with bad feeling, unlike my mother i wouldn't be perfectly fine with it and pretend everything is hunky dory, i'd put a stop to it.

For clarity not because so much because of worrying about them, but because i'd look bad!

So who is who? And what?

I think that depends on the situation you are in with them. I would say best method is to avoid all together and not give them a way in.

Obviously varying levels and everyone is different but if you're living with one it's hard because it's deceptive, they can be nice and clever with it you can easily get lost and trapped in it all. Emotional and psychological abuse was strong in mine but it turned physical, more volatile and more along the lines of your life is in danger.

For me, there was no getting through it didn't matter what happened they were never at fault, they did anything and anything to avoid that down to totally rewriting everything and themselves.

Pushing back, standing up for yourself resulted in extreme rage, levels I have never witnessed before and violence. Then ultimately being smeared as abusive towards them.

I mean there's so many different causes it's hard to know what you're dealing with. Some may just lack empathy to a degree, others like in my case would be capable of anything because of that non existent empathy or remorse.

I always thought one guy in my friendship group at school was a sociopath/psychopath. He was fun and could be very charming/persuasive but there was just a coldness behind his eyes and he was quick to anger. He slept with most of the girls in our group and a couple of us felt that we didn't really have a choice in the matter. I wouldn't say that he raped me as such but I did feel that saying no wasn't really an option. He was very rough (not in a fun way) and I felt like his sex doll. I haven't seen him for years. There was such an air of entitlement about him, he really thought he deserved everything he wanted and would get very angry if he didn't get it.

Interesting how to combat them if they are in your midst. Do you fight fire with fire? Do you play your cards close to your chest? Do you just get away as fast as possible? What if you are stuck with them for some reason?

I guess it would partly depend what was at stake.

@JaneyGee Seems similar to my experience and I think in my circumstance may be dealing with narcissism. Just a deep set hatred that's wrapped around some mask of a lovely caring person.

Extremely cunning with it to the point most people don't even know what she's like but everyones interactions are kept to a few hours and doesn't mix friends or circles and changes personality depending on those circles.

Cannot be in the wrong ever and any hint of criticism, humiliation or fault is met with some form of demonic like rage. Not anger but something unhinged.

Every time, even with proof, evidence or witnesses it's turned around in some way or another that makes them not at fault.

Generally anyone that goes against them and any perceived slight is taken deeply, even if not directed at them and the end result is being cut off completely. They don't exist and never did.

My ex manager scored highly on the psychopath scale - no empathy, compulsive lying (nothing was ever her fault), superficially charming, but a vicious bully. Has never stayed in a job longer than 3 years.

She tried so hard to get rid of the staff who had been there before she arrived, but in the end we waited her out.

Edward St Aubyn’s Melrose novels contain a superb portrayal of a psychopath, especially the first. They hunt out weaknesses in people and exploit them. I’m pretty sure my aunt is a psychopath, or at least has psychopathic traits:

• No empathy. Feels nothing when good people suffer or die.
• Fakes real emotion. So she’ll say “ah, isn’t it sad,” etc but you know she couldn’t care less.
• Never misses an opportunity to hurt someone. Would tell a recovering anorexic that she looked “chubby,” for example, in the hope of triggering another bout of illness. And she’d do that even if the anorexic was a sweet and innocent person who’d done her no harm.
• No conscience. Feels no guilt for the evil things she says and does.
• Very, very manipulative. A chameleon who will be whatever you want her to be.
• Wears a mask.
• Will suddenly explode in rage when she feels trapped or humiliated or can’t get her own way. And when she does, it takes you by surprise (because the hatred and rage is hidden behind a mask).
• Charming (part of her manipulation).
• Causes upset and arguments and then sits back and enjoys the drama. She joined my book group once and it was a nightmare. She drove one person to leave by goading and offending her (always in that fake innocent way). Then she tried to turn the others in the group against another member. It was awful to watch. But my god was she clever. Nothing she said or did could ever have been called out. It was always done in an ‘innocent’ way. (We are now non-contact btw and I never want to see her again. Evil woman).

I used to worry I was a psychopath as my emotional responses didn’t match what was expected of me and I didn’t feel like I cared about hurting people. Later in life I realised I’ve ASD and I was actually defending myself against the empathy and remorse that comes of misreading people and hurting them unintentionally. ‘I don’t care’ as a cover for ‘oh shit, now I’m upset too’. As I’ve got older, I’ve been better able to understand the feelings of others, and cope with the excess of feeling that comes from caring about them, as opposed to adamantly shutting it all out.

Chucking this in as an ND comparison-I think psychopathy is very different. Most of the ASD people I know are very sensitive in their own ways.

This.

I do think the disorder versus adaptation question is an interesting one to ponder. When it comes to successful pro-social psychopaths, is it in fact a personality maladaptation or disorder, as opposed to a distinct type?

My ex was a psychopath, very manipulative and could be violent, social norms meant nothing to him, he had no empathy at all, very scary

I would also add that at times I have wished to be a psychopath so that I did not have to live with my inherent weakness of caring so much about others.

As I grew up I kind of saw psychopathy as a super power. Disturbing but true. I realised had I not loved my Dad as much as I did despite his abject indifference, I could just pick up the nearest lamp or heavy object and defend myself against him without worrying about any damage.

My brother is pretty sure he's a psychopath, or has some anti social personality disorder traits. I think he's probably right. He just doesn't feel a bunch of emotions. He's very charming (infuriatingly so - I always got so annoyed with the shit he got away with when we were kids and still gets away with), but utterly ruthless. He does feel love I think - he's totally devoted to his daughters and dog loyal to his close friends, and I know he'd bury a body for me in a heartbeat - but often in a slightly weird and controlling way and he is manipulative af. Once you know him and know the signs you can call him out on it (and I do) but he'll just laugh and say "well spotted". I've never seen him show any remorse for anything.

He's a serial philanderer, he's utterly malicious to those who cross him. He's never committed a crime that I know of (because it's usually not worth it) and he's not sadistic at all. He's just on a shorter emotional range than most people. Very successful professionally - did well in the army and now is in business and makes a fortune.

Absolutely love the transparency and insight on here: I am really beginning to understand how it works.

Unlike many kinder souls on here. My Dad used to enjoy hitting us, if he had a bad day he had something small and soft to relieve his intense frustration, we were tiny (2years old) when he started. He would never hit us so much that my mother would actually leave, no arm fractures etc, but just enough to relieve himself.
He would laugh wildly at times with the rush he experienced or violently retaliate if we cried too loudly or too much, because if he wasn’t enjoying it, then it just annoyed him, the sound of our distress actually irritated the hell out of him and he would become even more angry and violent.
We learnt to bite back our screams because it would only make him worse. He was, and still has never been remotely sorry. He just can not see what is wrong with his actions, to him, it was an action that he took because he needed to. There is almost a confused response when he has been asked about his grotesque treatment of his own small children. The answer is he doesn’t like children. Especially not small children and we were annoying him, disturbing the football match commentary so he fixed it.

There is no empathy or remorse. His eyes get very fixed when he is about to turn, and nothing can stop him. He has never been afraid of anything, not the police when they came, not other men - no one bothers him, because he knows he will do whatever it takes to win/survive. You can’t stop a person like this, nothing works. He has no real empathy or fear even for himself.

Occasionally my mother would vow to leave, and he would be indifferent, then if she became really serious he might offer to take her shopping or promise her to change. He never did, he just knew he could tell her whatever she wanted to hear and she would stay in her place where he wanted her.

He was capable of deeper cruelty than violence, and that was even worse. Throwing my favourite toy on to concrete to smash it’s face would be a great way to cheer himself up, and watch me scream, or lock us up for hours until we pleaded to go to the toilet for hours Knowing he would kill us if we had an accident.

The total absence of humanity was terrifying to live with. Sadly my brother seems to have acquired the same traits, and over the years I had to contend with both of them.

I am sure many on here are fully aware of their power. My father saw emotions and feelings as pure weakness, pathetic whimpering and he would always have the upper hand - without effort because we cared and he didn’t put simply. I would say there was contempt for people that felt empathy, love or helped others. He just thought why bother? No concept of helping others or understanding pain and suffering. It was another language to him. He would play the game occasionally if it benefited him, but never because he had thoughts for another’s plight. There would be a calculation in there somewhere that is an advantage to him.

If it’s between my father and a Rottweiler as someone said upthread I would feel bloody sorry for the Rottweiler!

You really should never underestimate a psychopath or assume they have limits, or if you dig hard enough for long enough you will find a soul and humanity within them, that’s the scary thing when you realise it just doesn’t exist. By then you are way out of your depth and in deep danger.

My experience as a child of a psychopath is this, it is tremendously frightening, terrifying every day and I am truly relieved to still be alive and posting.

@thelinkisdead I hear you about considering others weaker because they can't process events/emotions the way I do. I have a view of myself as emotionally really strong and people who weep, wail and can't cope as "weak" and "less". Like you, intellectually I know this is wrong and I'd never voice it in real life.

This resonates for me too. I definitely love my children - but it's almost a primal, tangible love rather than an emotional one. I'm not at all blind to their flaws. DD would say I'm hyper critical though I try to reign it in. Not to prevent hurt (as you might assume) but to prevent damaging them psychologically. I'd happily kill for them though. I'd also be voted most likely to help them hide a body.

This last bit is me too. I come across as genuine, charming and really kind, but I’m not. I really don’t care much about anyone except my immediate family. I’m also really not interested in anyone’s life and find small talk an absolute drag, although I’ll engage in it effortlessly. I’m pretty good socially and enjoy being with people, but I find most of them boring after a while. I have to work really hard at not discarding people or friendships - making sure I don’t make rash decisions which could later be to my detriment.

The poster before who talked about a traumatic event which they compartmentalised rather than feeling hugely upset about (sorry if I’ve paraphrased wrongly) rings true too. I have had a couple of experiences in my life which really should have upset me but didn’t. I processed them, discussed them with my husband and moved on. I find when others experience similar and are (quite rightly) upset, I have to really dig deep and pretend I understand why they feel like that, and if I’m honest, I see it as weakness (although intellectually I know this is not the case).

Most psychopaths are not murderers they are high functioning individuals and successful leaders in business, finance and are often charming and attractive to people. Think of the types of people operating at the top of government who could lie and make decisions that affect many others in an adverse way but not care and laugh off their actions. It's easy for them to do because they genuinely don't care. Most are not within the prison population or in state hospitals.

High score, not surprised, not worried.

I've tried but i really can't describe what it's like.

Just the cliches -
I love my husband (2nd husband) and my kids and animals. Don't give a shit about anyone else basically. At all. I'm good at pretending i do though. Lots of people think i'm lovely and charming, but i'm really not. I think good manners are more important than good morals 99% of the time.

Interestingly while it is commonly believed that there are more male psychopaths than female, there is the suggestion that there isn’t in fact such a huge difference in prevalence between the sexes.

Research in psychopathy has overwhelmingly focused on imprisoned male psychopaths (again, problematic because this only reflects a minority of psychopaths), but comparatively very little has been done on female psychopaths, in or out of prison.

How the two sexes present is very different, and someone looking for a psychopath based on behaviour they would expect a male psychopath to exhibit, isn’t necessarily going to spot it in a woman. The traits are different, and it is much harder to detect precisely because people are looking for the masculine characteristics.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3767421/

I can't say for sure obviously but yes I believe my wife was, that or a sociopath.

It's not what it's depicted as can be charming and intelligent with it but deep down there is something missing. There was a time where everything seemed genuine but over the years it became more apparent it was surface level or mimicking what had studied in others behavior.

I noticed this too over the years, a studying stare fixated on certain people but far too wide eyed and long duration. Used to do it to me, I would feel this intense feeling of being watched and out the corner of my eye this fixated stare and when I would look back they would instantly look away.

Very blunt to the point of being offensive, no deep empathy could see someone in pain, fear or danger and almost revel in it. Rewriting past, events to suit their own narrative and often changing personality on the fly based on who they were around.

Changing their entire past, events and personality as a whole to become someone they haven't before, regardless of evidence or witnesses.

Absolutely no concept of humor, nothing was funny and didn't understand or could process anything in that sense.

Often said never truly felt happiness or joy, envied most people and strong jealousy of others.

Abusive to the core but saw themselves as a saint and that everyone around them had it out for them and were abusive to them.

One thing I have come to learn, as they say, the eyes are the window to the soul and from what I saw in my experience was at times dark or voidness in the eyes. Totally glossed over and dull no spark almost, distance gaze, sometimes a smirk of whatever were thinking about.

Now the person I was knew no longer exists, a darker cruel person has emerged and their eyes look different, like possessed.

And yes so true 😂

I read that psychopathy is genetic and is passed down on the male side

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0047235211000845

My mother was like that, too.

I see myself as vastly different from most others, yes. My husband is probably the only person I’ll discuss it with as he is very similar. We are actually very good people - neither of us have any interest in hurting others, nor do we get pleasure from others’ pain. I think someone pointing out upthread that most studied psychopaths being part of the prison population is hugely important. I love my family and feel great empathy towards them, although how much of that is learned or because it impacts me is impossible to tell. I don’t, however, care much about others’ upset or in pain - although on a behavioural level, I avoid being the cause of that. I like order. I like to maintain the status quo. Being a good member of society - for me - is all about quid pro quo; if I don’t conform then how can I expect others to.

In terms of work and career, I’m pretty much of the opinion that if you get in my way then - well, I guess it won’t be me who comes off worst. I will climb at all costs and manipulation is part of that, but that doesn’t mean I enjoy playing games with people to see them suffer; it just means I’m one step ahead and tend to assume the worst in people. Both my husband and I are very driven and if we want something we get it. I think our personalities have led to us being successful.

I do have a massively strong sense of self / ego. I don’t see myself as more deserving than anyone else, but I do have a huge feeling of superiority if that makes sense? I don’t however expect others to think that of me. I really don’t care one bit what others think.

For me, a good upbringing and education has given me a strong set of values that I adhere to - I suppose it’s a sort of code in a sense. I’m also not professing to be a psychopath, as I don’t see myself as having any sort of personality disorder or being dangerous in any way. I just don’t empathise in the way most do. I actually see that empathy as being hugely hindering in a lot of situations. Obviously though, with it being the norm, you have to feign it most of the time or people jump to conclusions and think you’re capable of behaviour you’re actually not. I wouldn’t do anything that inconvenienced me, or put my life / family / job at risk. Do I have the capability in different circumstances? Probably.