To consider myself working class?

Why do you care?

That’s the thing though, you are talking about choice; which is what makes the distinction between working class and middle class in these examples. However; often those in subsequent generations don’t have the choice; which means they are more likely to be working class.

You’re MC. Obviously people have mentioned the obvious things such as horses but you have come from such a privileged position that has enabled you to make your lifestyle choices. Everything from not having children, not needing a partner, deciding not to own and be a penniless artist without a pension.

I don’t even feel like I can describe myself as working class as on paper I'm probably more middle class (I’m definitely more working class than you though) but my family is working class. So I wasn’t on free school meals but I was just above the threshold, we didn’t live in council housing but I lived in one of the most deprived areas of the UK. I wasn’t the first In my family to go to uni, my uncle was but he went due to a scholarship. I was the second and I think the only one from my primary school to go and part of a small percentage of my secondary school that went to university. I don’t know a single person that did a fine art degree, I’m sorry that would be considered a pointless degree by my entire family. Both my parents did not agree to me doing a masters because I needed to get out there and get a proper job. A contract job in my degree subject was not seen as a proper job - full time, secure, stable income was a proper job. Travelling for a few years is an absolutely laughable idea. I have my masters but I saved up for it and did it while working full time. I had fixed term contracts for a while and my parents were not happy because it wasn’t secure.

You can’t see it. You can’t see your privilege and the impact it has had on your lifestyle. My daughter will likely be classed as middle class but I won’t ever tell her to go and do what makes her happy. I will be telling her to work hard and get a job that pays above NMW. That whilst money doesn’t buy you happiness, it does make life easier and when there is an economic downturn it’s much easier to ride that out if she’s earning above NMW with a secure job. I won’t be pushing her to work all the hours in a job just to get money but if she has a salary above average then she can use her free time to do the meaningful things in life that she wants to do. If she’s lucky, that might turn into a steady and secure income for her but it’s not solely down to how talented she is or how hard she works but how lucky she is. I would never encourage her to rent instead of own. I would tell her that mortgages go down over time and rent will only ever go up. That she might not receive an inheritance and so she need a pension and to plan for that, she needs to own her own home and not be subject to the whim of a landlord in her retirement. I can’t see either of my parents encouraging DD to rent indefinitely instead of own. My mum was so proud of herself when she paid her mortgage off, she’d come close to losing the house but she owned that. She’s not retired yet but she’s secure going into retirement knowing she needs some aside for house repairs but it’s just her general day to day living expenses she needs to find. It’s really freeing for her when she is still working and not knowing when she’ll have enough to retire that she doesn’t at least have to figure rent into the equation.

We learn behaviours from our upbringing. Whilst my upbringing wasn’t as working class as some people on this thread, it has definitely influenced my thinking and decisions going be forward. The reason people are angry at you is because you literally can’t see that you don’t have any of these hang ups that you’ve brought forward into your adult life and you’ve just been able to do whatever you want. You’ve had a safety net there.

‘If you called your dad you could stop it all, yeah’

sorry OP, I don’t wish to be mean - tho any excuse for a Pulp lyric! - and I wish you all the best and am sure you are talented and work hard. But no, you are not working class and your friend is correct.

Middle class.. come on

All of those are easily learned behaviours. You could be solidly working class and picked up "lav" from the TV.

You have had a lot of advantages that you are ignoring/not acknowledging to claim an identity ‘being working class’ that is not yours. IMO.

How did you earn your living when you followed your passion and decided to become a painter? You mention some recent commissions but I guess it took a while to get to that point?

Lots of people. It’s anonymous, and also who cares? What could possibly happen?

My pre tax salary is £47.5k.

I think a lot of us in the UK don't see ourselves as in either camp, but that is likely just personal bias. I don't know. I certainly don't feel that my life since leaving home identifies with either WC or MC. And of course it doesn't matter

I know you’ve been mocked a bit and I’m really trying hard not to do that, and to be nice, but I think that part of the reason you don’t see yourself as being in either camp and why you think class doesn’t matter is because you’ve had a lot of advantages that you’ve had absolutely no idea you’ve had. It’s very easy to pretend that class doesn’t matter when nobody assumes you’re thick because you didn’t go to university. Or nobody is shocked that you and your siblings all have the same biological father simply because you’re one of four and grew up on a council estate (I’ve had that one a few times).

I’ve seen both upward and downward mobility around me.

My father was brought up VERY working class (single income of a miner/labourer, his mum was a SAHM and he had 6 siblings) yet worked hard and had some good fortune and I was brought up far better than he was (still working class but my parents owned a modest mortgaged home, we had several UK holidays a year) and my kids are probably being brought up upper working:lower middle class.

A family member inherited two properties, sold both and bought one larger property. Despite this, their kids were brought up fairly cash poor, because their parents never held stable jobs. Neither of their kids own homes now, one is unemployed and one works part time in savers.

This thread is funny...
OP, the 'Greek comment' is a line from Pulp's Common People song.
Please Google as it's very apt! - no offence meant!

I think class is often more about attitude and education than income and assets.

Because you said you were an artist on a precarious income. I used to be in a similar position but found myself a fine art publisher which means a consistently good income, nothing as exciting or eminently ignorable as you might imagine!

Also, all joking aside - OP you really need to cop on. You seem to have no idea of issues with education and employment, no concept of challenges people face and yet you still want to negate them. You do you, but if you steal other peoples identity you also do an injustice to the issues they care about.

This a million times! Jeez, I generally assume I’m middle class - grandad and dad miners, mum trained in her 40s as a teacher and I ended up going to uni (Tho I can’t say I generally think about it) and you sound way posher than me!!