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AIBU?

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Original poster

To consider myself working class?

306 replies

TheCatsKnickers · 06/08/2023 17:50

I'm fully aware that it doesn't matter, but for the sake of argument - basically an ongoing debate with friend who insists I am middle class - which of us would be correct?

My background:
Dad probs upper working, good job but no higher education, bought our house and subsequent houses without mortgage. Mum from educated family but was SAHM. Grew up in MC area and schools, kept horses but more rough and tumble than 'posh'. Had a few years off too travel and have fun in late teens largely funded by parents, then went to uni late and studied fine art.
This, according to my friend cements me as MC.

The present day:
Followed my passion and became a painter. Didn't want to marry or have children so chose to rent. Preferred this as could move around and experience different places. Bit of a free spirit, but had to accept some financial insecurity for the pleasure! Am now in 40's and still similar, very content with long term DP but, I presume, not typical for many my age.
I have a decent 5 figure sum in savings although we received only a smallish inheritance due to both parents needing care in old age (they had also given their second property to an aunt and uncle who developed health issues in later life).
My income is somewhat fluid and would possibly terrify some, but I have intermittently earned very, very well and often receive high payments for my work (anywhere from £200 to £1k per commission or piece), but some months are quite the opposite.
So my lifestyle is not standard and has some financial insecurity, but I made my own choices.
Therefore, since I don't own a home or have a private pension I perceive my status to be 'working class', regardless of my background privileges and lifestyle. My friend argues not!

Which of us is correct?

OP posts:
BCBird · 06/08/2023 18:31

You are not working class OP. This is a constant source of discussion at work.

GlasgowGal82 · 06/08/2023 18:30

Mutabiliss · 06/08/2023 17:54

Technically anyone who needs to work is working class.

However, in terms of British society and expectations I would say your upbringing and current situation are firmly middle class.

That's not really true. By most definitions middle class people work too, but in higher paid, professional roles or as business owners.

OP - you are definitely middle class. Having time off to travel funded by parents, receiving an inheritance (even it it was small), having higher than average savings, having the financial security to be able to choose less secure work, having studied fine art at university (having attended university is a marker of being middle class, but fine art is particularly middle class), having had horses... all markers of being middle class! Even the fact that you 'chose' not to have a private pension or buy a house is a marker!

BritWifeInUSA · 06/08/2023 18:29

Who cares?

vodkaredbullgirl · 06/08/2023 18:28

😅working class

MasterBeth · 06/08/2023 18:28

TheCatsKnickers · 06/08/2023 18:22

If my dad was a miner at 14, I can't see how. I grew up in a semi detached and have had no private education. We inherited sod all, how is that upper mc? Grin

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Because he was a fancy cheese vendor later on, married your middle class mum, owned two houses and horses, funded your teenage lifestyle, then sent you off to university to study fine art. Your dad possibly made the class switch (he may have still considered himself working class), but he certainly raised you in a middle-class home.

(I wouldn't call you upper middle class, but there's no way on earth you're working class.)

HooverIsAlwaysBroken · 06/08/2023 18:27

You not YouTube obviously

HooverIsAlwaysBroken · 06/08/2023 18:27

OP , youtube were “encouraged to do whatever your hearts desired.” That is an amazing privilege.

I tell me children to work really hard so they will be able to get a job which pays the bills - and enables them to have a family if they chose.

Fleur405 · 06/08/2023 18:25

You lost me at the horses. 🙄

PrinceHaz · 06/08/2023 18:25

TheCatsKnickers · 06/08/2023 18:22

If my dad was a miner at 14, I can't see how. I grew up in a semi detached and have had no private education. We inherited sod all, how is that upper mc? Grin

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I think people feel like you’re upper middle because what you’re describing sounds relatively privileged.
You're definitely not upper middle by any known definition though. You don’t have the family heritage or the profession.

Sallyh87 · 06/08/2023 18:25

I think it’s interesting that people still use the term ‘working class’. Karl Marx first wrote about it or the ‘proletariat’ in the 1800s. The term itself is no longer really valid. Or certainly not how it was first used.

Maybe some new sociologist needs to come up with a new term. We are all confused as to what this means, are you poor, we’re your parents poor, did you grow up in poverty. It’s unclear what ‘working class’ means to anyone. I work in the public sector, with mangers who earn 60k£ claiming they are working class as their dads were lower earners.

Anyway, thinking about doing a PHD on this topic 😂.

Luxell934 · 06/08/2023 18:24

TheCatsKnickers · 06/08/2023 18:22

If my dad was a miner at 14, I can't see how. I grew up in a semi detached and have had no private education. We inherited sod all, how is that upper mc? Grin

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How were your parents able to buy multiple houses without a mortgage?

Original poster
TheCatsKnickers · 06/08/2023 18:22

Boomboom22 · 06/08/2023 18:18

So typical upper middle class through and through!

If my dad was a miner at 14, I can't see how. I grew up in a semi detached and have had no private education. We inherited sod all, how is that upper mc? Grin

OP posts:
killim · 06/08/2023 18:22

Horses and a parent funded gap year 😆

You're firmly middle class. Embrace it.

Curseofthenation · 06/08/2023 18:21

Seriously? This has got to be a joke. The horses comment. Sweet Jesus 😅😅😅.

Original poster
TheCatsKnickers · 06/08/2023 18:21

Ok i sense some anger here, I can see where you are coming from, but my intention was not to provoke ire. It is an idle curiosity after a conversation, we had been talking about something we read online.
I am very, very aware of the privileges of my past, I can promise you that, but I didn't ever perceive us as MC, i cant help that. I realise that is because until 16 this was mirrored all around me. Education was not a huge force in my family so this is perhaps why. We were encouraged to do what our hearts desired whether hairdressing or science.

I do appreciate many of the points here.

OP posts:
Luxell934 · 06/08/2023 18:21

MasterBeth · 06/08/2023 18:20

We had horses but looked after them ourselves.

This is gold. "We went skiing but we made our own skis."

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😂

We had a brand new Mercedes, but washed it ourselves.

Barbadossunset · 06/08/2023 18:21

I admit my background was fairly MC but I know lots of WC artists. My DP is a WC artist.

Thank god your DP is WC! Imagine if he’d been a posho and having to come on mn and admit that. Blimey you’d never live it down.

WoolyMammoth55 · 06/08/2023 18:20

OP, you're MC and it's not cool of you to try to appropriate a WC label like some weird humble brag.

Any artist is MC by definition. WC people work to live, they don't waft about like you do!

Choosing not to buy a home isn't the same as not being in the property owning classes. You'd need to be particularly dense not to get this, surely.

It sounds like you're upper-MC to me.

PrinceHaz · 06/08/2023 18:20

You’re culturally middle class due in part to elements of your family and upbringing and to your arts based job.
If I had to pin you down to a class, I’d say lower to middle, middle rather than upper middle as you don’t come from wealth and you don’t have a profession e.g. doctor.
People who are saying it doesn’t matter- I don’t agree. I see your point as class isn’t such a barrier now as it was but even if we don’t talk about it, we’re all very conscious of our place in the social hierarchy of the country. It’s interesting to discuss, sociologically.

fullbloom87 · 06/08/2023 18:20

You are NOT working class. You had a cosy upbringing, received inheritance, and now you get to earn money by painting.
I bet your financial 'insecurities' are worrying you may have to 'dip in' to savings.

MasterBeth · 06/08/2023 18:20

TheCatsKnickers · 06/08/2023 18:17

We were more haphazard and a bit mixed really than the versions of MC you hear about on mumsnet! We had horses but looked after them ourselves, it was difficult to ever go on hols due to that. Dad was definitely WC originally tho.

We had horses but looked after them ourselves.

This is gold. "We went skiing but we made our own skis."

Luxell934 · 06/08/2023 18:20

100% middle class upbringing.

MintJulia · 06/08/2023 18:18

Not even close. You come from a home your parents owned, your father could afford for your dm to stay at home and for you to take a few years off before going to university and taking a degree famous for not providing a financial return on investment. And you lived in a naice area and kept horses.

Technically those of us without a private trust fund are all working class, but in class terms you definitely are not. You can afford not even to try for a regular income.

Boomboom22 · 06/08/2023 18:18

So typical upper middle class through and through!

gogomoto · 06/08/2023 18:17

Your friend is correct though I personally think craftspeople, artisans etc fall outside the traditional abc1b2de socioeconomic class model.

Not that it matters.