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Flexible working revoked - help!!

410 replies

Tiredofbeingtired1 · 05/08/2023 07:59

Looking for a sounding board for a problem I'm having at work. Not sure what to do really...

So, I had a baby and returned after a 9 month maternity leave, but when my son was 5 months old, I discussed my return to work with my boss (male).

(I work as a PA for two people who own and run the company)

I asked to return to work 5 days a week, but to work 2 days from home and also if I could leave at 4.30pm instead of my contracted finish of 5pm in order to pick up my son from nursery. I was told that none of this was a problem and that I didn't need to be in when my boss wasn't in (he also worked 3 days a week in the office).

So I returned to work with this set up and did absolutely everything to make this work, which included working through lunch breaks and responding to emails from 6am-10pm 7 days a week.

After 8 months of this being in place, I was told (in the middle of the office, not privately) that they were going to need to ask me to return to the office 4 days a week as they couldn't give me something they weren't giving to the rest of the staff. I was assured that this had nothing to do with my performance as they know I'm working all the time, but purely to do with what other people in the office are allowed.

I had many discussions with them about the impact of this on me, and that it would cost me almost an extra £400 in childcare costs per month, to which I was told effectively that if I can't afford to have kids, I shouldn't have them.

At this point, two other women were having their working from home revoked, but they had had it for 11 and 14 years, and their children were in secondary school by this point.

In the discussions for this, my boss (female) had suggested to me that on the extra day I was being asked to work in the office, I could leave early. This was purely her idea and was even suggesting around lunchtime.

After all my protests, I was told they would get back to me...however 5 months later nobody had. As this was being requested to start in September, I approached my boss (female) last week to discuss it before my holiday, and her holiday. She seemed surprised, but thankful that I had put the wheels in motion and was making this happening and agreed that it had kind of been forgotten about (not by me, I can assure you!). When I then raised her idea of leaving early on the extra day in the office, she didn't seem to recall this conversation and actually seemed quite annoyed by it, asking "how early?". I suggested 3.30pm instead of 4.30pm, and as I could see that this request wasn't going down well, I suggested it be for the first 3 weeks to help my son settle in (as this also coincides with him moving to preschool).

She then said that we need to review my leaving at 4.30pm on other days, and would I be willing to leave at 5pm (my contracted time) instead. I said that it wasn't a case of being willing, but that if I left at that time, I wouldn't be able to make it to the nursery before they shut. She seemed in disbelief that it would take me that long to get home, but I pointed out that whilst Google might suggest it is an hour, that is if I hit all my connections and there is no traffic. In practice, this is never the case, and it it always takes me around 1 hour 20 mins.

Her reasoning for asking me to leave at 5pm was again, for parity across the office, but also in case her or my other boss need something urgent between 4.30-5pm. Whilst I understand this, in practice I don't think this is actually the case, as all day I am asked for very little and I am the proactive one asking if they need things all the time. I can't believe that something urgent would be regularly happening in the last 30 mins of the day.

She also said that if they finish a meeting after 4.30pm and I am gone, they might need something, and it's not fair on other members of staff as it puts more pressure on them. Whilst this is true, I have been back through the diaries and in the 201 days I have worked back in the office, they have had meetings that have gone beyond 4.30pm 18 times. Also, they have never had someone come to the office for a meeting that starts after 4.30pm.

Therefore I feel that this isn't a reflection of what actually happens. I can't believe that they ask for very little all day, but in that last 30 mins something urgent comes up. She also acknowledged that I am on email my whole journey home, but it's if something happens that I am needed in person. She accepted the fact I work through my lunch, and from early morning until late evening on emails, but that it was not about total hours worked.

For context, my company are very anti flexible working. I joined 3 days before lockdown in 2020, and went on maternity leave in July 2021, so had spent a massive amount of my employment working from home. They are on a drive to get people back to the office and don't want anyone working from home. They recently conducted a staff survey, and in that almost every member of the office requested more flexibility with working from home. Therefore they are begrudgingly reviewing it, but it seems they are missing the point that flexible working doesn't have to be the exact same conditions for everyone and that it is a case by case scenario.

I am unsure as to whether I am being unreasonable, or if not, how hard to push on this - especially given that I was told by my boss (male) that he asked if he could get rid of me when I told him I was pregnant!!

We are a small team and don't have an official HR department. We recently just got a freelance HR person in, but I'm unsure as to how much I trust them yet. Also, in my capacity as a PA I work very closely with my bosses and maintaining a good relationship is important. I'm not trying to rock the boat or get special privileges, but it's hard to make things work when the agreement keeps changing. I returned to work based on certain conditions and I set my life up around them.

Any advice would be so gratefully received as it is keeping me up at night!

Thank you!

OP posts:
magicalkitty · 06/08/2023 14:26

sunglassesonthetable · 06/08/2023 14:10

OP said it was an extra £400 in childcare costs, so it isn't transport costs.

True. Maybe she rolled it all in and it wasn't forensic.

Assumptions all round..

I don't think it's an assumption when she said:

I had many discussions with them about the impact of this on me, and that it would cost me almost an extra £400 in childcare costs

sunglassesonthetable · 06/08/2023 14:10

OP said it was an extra £400 in childcare costs, so it isn't transport costs.

True. Maybe she rolled it all in and it wasn't forensic.

Assumptions all round..

magicalkitty · 06/08/2023 13:54

sunglassesonthetable · 06/08/2023 13:20

You missed an important part of that analysis there - that having to go into the office an extra day a week will cost OP an extra £400 a month…and OP refuses to answer why.

No I didn't.

For starters has anyone factored in travel costs - It's a massive commute.

But more importantly OP has only refused SINCE returning. When the judge and jury had already decided that.

Good for her. She's answered the question and everyone who'd been giving chapter and verse are REALLY pissy.

OP said it was an extra £400 in childcare costs, so it isn't transport costs.

sunglassesonthetable · 06/08/2023 13:52

Either way this really isn't complicated; it's their decision and providing they can back it up it's then for the employee to either accept it or look elsewhere

All about the 'providing' here. And it does get more complicated if OP puts in a formal request.

And this lot sound disorganised and not very together.

Very possibly OP's manager's questions will have been equally valid, though whether they'd have got any coherent response is anyone's guess

Meow. Very Pissy.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 06/08/2023 13:38

Rupiduti · 06/08/2023 11:50

Of course the questions people ask are valid. We've asked if the child has a dad / mum on the scene. If so, why is it all down to you? Why should only your work slip and not the child's other parent?

Of course the £400 extra is something people are trying to understand. You've asked for advice but it isn't easy to advise if you don't answer simple questions.

Very possibly OP's manager's questions will have been equally valid, though whether they'd have got any coherent response is anyone's guess

Either way this really isn't complicated; it's their decision and providing they can back it up it's then for the employee to either accept it or look elsewhere

sunglassesonthetable · 06/08/2023 13:20

You missed an important part of that analysis there - that having to go into the office an extra day a week will cost OP an extra £400 a month…and OP refuses to answer why.

No I didn't.

For starters has anyone factored in travel costs - It's a massive commute.

But more importantly OP has only refused SINCE returning. When the judge and jury had already decided that.

Good for her. She's answered the question and everyone who'd been giving chapter and verse are REALLY pissy.

Privatemedical246 · 06/08/2023 13:11

People are making some massive presumptions. She may have childcare that works for wfh but not into the office. For example my parents have my child 1 day a week but they live 30 minutes the opposite direction to where I work and I live 30 minutes away from work so I would have to do alot of driving back and forth and dropping off night before etc which for me whilst saves money would knacker me. It wasnt going to be an option before WFH was introduced but now it is. I have agreement to WFH that 1 day a week. So I have childcare that day and I go and work at my parents house in their study away from the main house, to save travelling back and forth. It saves us childcare money and commuting cost. It wouldn't work if I was demanded back into the office I'd have to pay another day a week childcare which would add up.

GoingGoingUp · 06/08/2023 13:10

sunglassesonthetable · 06/08/2023 13:06

One of the more defensive OP updates I’ve seen 😳

One of the more ridiculous presumptive set of posters I've seen. 🙄

People asking " why does OP need to change her working ?"

Posters authoritatively answering " oh she's looking after her child whilst working"

NO she NEVER said that.
Just a massive MN deduction.

You missed an important part of that analysis there - that having to go into the office an extra day a week will cost OP an extra £400 a month…and OP refuses to answer why.

sunglassesonthetable · 06/08/2023 13:06

One of the more defensive OP updates I’ve seen 😳

One of the more ridiculous presumptive set of posters I've seen. 🙄

People asking " why does OP need to change her working ?"

Posters authoritatively answering " oh she's looking after her child whilst working"

NO she NEVER said that.
Just a massive MN deduction.

Oloi · 06/08/2023 12:59

If you can't be available in the way they want (i.e. present in the office and/or not preoccupied with looking after a child) and between all of the hours you are contracted, you need a new job.

If it really matters to them that you are there between 4:30 and 5pm, then you doing a bit of catching up at 10pm when you feel like it doesn't cut it. You're not being flexible to them by doing so, you're suiting yourself.

greenteaandmarshmallows · 06/08/2023 12:50

magicalkitty · 06/08/2023 12:14

OP is not going to tell us why it would cost an extra £400 in childcare because she knows she will be flamed on here and not get the advice she wants to hear. Even though she said in her OP that will be the biggest impact on her if she's made to come to the office an extra day.

If it was a legitimate reason (and not because she isn't currently paying to put the child in nursery on those days) she would have said by now to avoid all the accusations.

She doesn't have to but I do think it's worth her thinking about the answer so she can explain it to her managers if it comes up again. It shouldn't though as they are right- her childcare costs are not their problem.

vickylou78 · 06/08/2023 12:29

Op I wasn't accusing you of being a shit mother or employee, the comments I made were as result of my own experience of trying to do it all during lock down and failing at both. It was so awful. But my comments were on the basis that you were working at home with a toddler. You've confirmed you are not so no need to take it personally. A misunderstanding.

magicalkitty · 06/08/2023 12:14

OP is not going to tell us why it would cost an extra £400 in childcare because she knows she will be flamed on here and not get the advice she wants to hear. Even though she said in her OP that will be the biggest impact on her if she's made to come to the office an extra day.

If it was a legitimate reason (and not because she isn't currently paying to put the child in nursery on those days) she would have said by now to avoid all the accusations.

HauntedPencil · 06/08/2023 11:58

Have to agree on the childcare cost - I am contractually home based and I paid for childcare for each day I work - it's so much easier for pick up and drop offs and my company have no issue with us doing school runs so we are lucky

I would want the additional commuting and stress of working in an office at the minute - but you do need to pay for childcare for your working hours particularly with a toddler - there is really no way you can work properly and care for a toddler at the same time.

It's happening a lot now that companies want people back in have nee members of our team (most of whom don't have young kids) who are looking for new jobs to keep the flexibility of WFH

Your job I think would fit in well with remote working and I'd look about. Some companies might be happy for you to work around your child with some evening work if you want to cut the potential childcare bill.

Sugarfree23 · 06/08/2023 11:51

Op if your not wfh with child then where is the £400 extra childcare coming from?

You've told your company its £400 more, they will be concluding exactly the same as the rest of us. And it probably explains a lot in terms of performance.

They have a reason for wanting you back in the office. You have to decide what that reason is.

Rupiduti · 06/08/2023 11:50

Of course the questions people ask are valid. We've asked if the child has a dad / mum on the scene. If so, why is it all down to you? Why should only your work slip and not the child's other parent?

Of course the £400 extra is something people are trying to understand. You've asked for advice but it isn't easy to advise if you don't answer simple questions.

AndIKnewYouMeantIt · 06/08/2023 11:39

OP, if you’ve told your work that coming in an additional 1 day per week will cost you £400 extra then they will almost certainly have assumed that you’ve been using WFH as childcare. It would certainly worry me if I was your manager.

Exactly. It's not a long term solution and it's not safe under the age of about 5. Fair enough if they're off for a week with chicken pox.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 06/08/2023 11:26

Women think that when they have a baby it suddenly gives them the right to not follow any work rules

It's true some do, but certainly not all
Trouble is, managers have no way of knowing which are which upfront, so sadly some increasingly avoid hiring women of childbearing age to save themselves a load of potential hassle

And while it was fair enough for OP to organise her life around something she was allegedly told would be "no problem", I expect that carried the proviso that the work would continue to be done to an acceptable standard
Naturally the employee will insist that they're still being fully effective - they always do - but it seems the manager in this case feels differently

Hufflepods · 06/08/2023 10:57

Tiredofbeingtired1 · 06/08/2023 10:52

I know. I should be accused of being shit at my job and neglecting my child and just keep my mouth shut. Silly me, I’m new around here.

OP it’s glaringly obvious it’s because you’re talking rubbish. Your child should be in childcare for the full amount of your work day, it would not cost you £400 a month more to work from the office compared to at home. At most you could pay a childminder 1-2 hrs less if you were at home which still t be anywhere near £400 and even then most childminders just prefer a day rate.

fitzwilliamdarcy · 06/08/2023 10:55

People are focussed on the £400 and you wfh with a toddler because it completely changes the advice that you need. Flexible working requests are not there so that you can be paid by your employer to look after a child that isn’t old enough to be without childcare.

If you’d rather have inaccurate advice then don’t explain what your circumstances actually are. But it won’t do you any good in the long run.

SpainToday · 06/08/2023 10:54

OP, hang into the thought that there are lots of companies whose PAs work very flexibly around their bosses

Tiredofbeingtired1 · 06/08/2023 10:52

AnneAnon · 06/08/2023 10:23

One of the more defensive OP updates I’ve seen 😳

I know. I should be accused of being shit at my job and neglecting my child and just keep my mouth shut. Silly me, I’m new around here.

OP posts:
gogomoto · 06/08/2023 10:42

I do understand their issue, you can't offer flexibility to one without offering it to all, I also don't understand why it's costing you more in childcare? Surely you have childcare for when you wfh? That is one of the reasons my dp revoked wfh asap in 2021, people not having adequate childcare whilst working, you can't work and look after a small child (later primary school/early secondary aren't an issue)

greenteaandmarshmallows · 06/08/2023 10:38

Thanks for clarifying re not wfh with a toddler OP. I think the problem you will have in challenging the flexible working arrangement is that you don't seem to have made a formal application

GoingGoingUp · 06/08/2023 10:37

Hufflepods · 06/08/2023 10:31

There’s no point lying about this in your thread, it’s pretty obvious you are. You are the one complaining that coming into the office an extra day a week will cost you £400 a month in childcare.

I know. Especially because the first update refused to answer the question about the £400, but also added that she hasn’t been caught out for working from home with a child and defended herself against the accusations that she can’t be a good parent and a good employee at the same time.

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