Non religious school

@Marblessolveeverything
Two months ago my 16 year old niece was publicly humiliated at her convent school for having the audacity to have an opinion that differs from the church.

I suppose it depends what she said and how she expressed it.

If she said "Sister Mary Claire is wizened old bag who prays to lumps of wood and wants us to do the same and I'm not doing it" I can see that would go down like a lead balloon.

But if she respectfully questioned something, then that was unacceptable and shouldn't have happened.

What did the parents do and what was the result?

@TwirlBar unfortunately my visits to 3 local mulit -demo schools were jarring. Crucifixes, Bible's in the multi faith room, not one other symbol. Reference to weekly assemblies where they started with a prayer.

When my son asked at the open day how they incorporate those of other and no religion, he was snapped at that they would sort something. My 11 year old son had more knowledge on how to be inclusive then a management team of a so called multi.

I hope things have changed in the past four years. But please be aware a lot experience of schools is they rebrand as being multi denomination but don't change.

One conversation I had with a secretary of the so called Multi was eye opening. When I was enquiring about places, I was assured that it was a multi in name only.

So while there are officially schools identified as multi I would be very sceptical. Having the default as Catholic is not multi denominational it is the bare legal minimum requirement.

@Friedgreentomatoestoo I have been an active member of a number of start up schools across the country since 2006 is that good enough. I work in education , 3rd level and some of my work means I see the negative impact that can be left on adults if in a setting that is conflict with your values. It is changing but it is not consistent.

Two months ago my 16 year old niece was publicly humiliated at her convent school for having the audacity to have an opinion that differs from the church. There is no other school format in her county. Her parents are professionals who want her to have a formal education.

Those of us outside the Catholic ethos are still treated like second class citizens when it comes to provision of education.
Ireland should hang it's head in shame.

@Chickenkeev sorry to derail your thread it just is infuriating that people can be so small minded. I hope whatever school she goes to is a happy place and remember she had a great foundation and that won't leave her.

I live in Ireland. I don't think it's a good idea to have a child travel for an hour plus each way to school so they can attend et school. Also most schools will only accept children within a certain catchment area. That catchment area could be a few miles.
Catholic schools now have mainly lay principal and staff. You can request that your child does not take part in a region class.
You need to find out what schools are in your catchment area.
Rather than focus on the catholic ethos I look at what the school is like, the subjects it offers and what you notice about the school. Work out which school would suit your child personality, acedimic ability, their interests and apply their.
I know in a lot of places people apply for secondary school in Oct and find out before Xmas what school their child got into.

I'm also in Ireland. Given the choice my DC would've gone to ET schools, however there are none in my area. So mine went to the local primary and secondary, both of which were Catholic schools, because there was literally no other choice. It's actually been fine, as young adults all three are complete atheists having utterly rejected the religious teaching in school. They've taken their lead from me, a lapsed Prod, and DH, a very lapsed Catholic, and decided none of it is for them at all. So what I'm trying to say is that they'll take their lead from their parents and at secondaryin terms of religion the school matters less than you might think. Going for convenience of location over religious ethos worked out for us - I was more interested in knowing who my children's friends' parents were, tbh. You can do that in a local school but it's harder if they have to commute across town.

If your DD is heading into 6th class in school in September then you really need to get your skates on, the first offers will be made then - usually firstly to qualifying primary feeder schools, then siblings etc, then gradually filtering down

This probably varies by area, but where I am the deadline for admission applications is mid to late October, following school open days in early October. First offers are sometime later but certainly before Christmas iirc. Here, having a sibling in the school puts you top of the list.

Education is accessible to all, or should be, places will be found - even the most profoundly disabled child must be accommodated, rightly.

They must be, but that doesn't mean they always are. Don't get me started.

Otherwise agree with everything you say @SageRosemary

How long is a long commute? If it's the other side of the city in Dublin versus Cork, Kilkenny, Limerick, Galway, Waterford the answer will be very different time wise. DC here went local, walking distance, that's potentially a saving of 2 hours travel time each day, getting some exercise and extra study time each day as well as getting healthy food when they get home instead of junk food on the go.

The school you went to as a teenager is not the same even if the building is unchanged. The headteacher will have retired as will most of the teachers. Even if the school was founded by nuns in the 18th, 19th or 20th century you can be almost certain that there will be no nuns teaching in the school now. The ethos of the school may still be Catholic but reflective of a modern society.

Students will study religion but not just Catholicism, they will learn about Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam, Jewish and other faiths. My DC sat exams for Junior Certificate based on all faiths studied in the JC curriculum. They learned from classmates about different customs. Catholic schools are under the same pressures as any other schools in the country to maximise points at Leaving Certificate. Speaking from my own experience with my DC, there will be one annual trip to the parish church for Mass, and one just for Leaving Cert graduation. There may be a quick prayer at the start of the day, students may be expected to stand but remain respectfully silent if they so wish.

History, science and art will be taught from the national curriculum just as they would be in an Educate Together school. This was how it was for me back in the last century too. My biology teacher was a nun, a very gentle soul, and she had no problem teaching us about human reproduction including the male and female reproductive organs which is the basis of me being gender critical today. (Trans identified males are still men.) All the books for these subjects will probably be common to both faith based and Educate Together schools. I suppose that it is not beyond the bounds of possibility that an art class could be tasked with producing some artwork to tie in with any event in school (such as a school musical or a harvest celebration). And the nun we had for Art had no problem showing us The Birth of Venus painting as well as The Ardagh Chalice. Had a lay teacher for history, followed the curriculum to the letter including pre-Catholic Ireland, Bronze and Iron Age pagans and hedge schools and Catholic Emancipation.

School here produces excellent academic results, several students in the top 100 at LC this year, non-private, lots of non-Catholic children enrolled of various faiths and none. I haven't heard of any of them being converted or even being encouraged to do so.

If your DD is heading into 6th class in school in September then you really need to get your skates on, the first offers will be made then - usually firstly to qualifying primary feeder schools, then siblings etc, then gradually filtering down to out of area applicants. But you will need to apply, even if you are local you won't be guaranteed a place if the school is over-subscribed from local applicants.

You could be brave here, name your city, name your location (roughly) and name the local school. People could then give you school specific information about the current school ethos and hazard a guess as to whether the commute would be worth the trouble, are you talking one bus or two etc? See what other people with similar views to you are doing locally, there may be another school which will meet your needs better. Also, you can go to the Department of Education & Skills website and search for WSE evaluations of the schools you are considering. Talk to your neighbours with older children, what do they think of the school?

Education is accessible to all, or should be, places will be found - even the most profoundly disabled child must be accommodated, rightly. The number of Catholic schools is decreasing as schools are amalgamating and you will almost never see a Catholic-based application to run new schools - these patrons are mostly coming from ET, county ETBs, Gaelscoileanna, Le Chéile, Muslim backgrounds.

in Ireland, population 5 million there are 21 ET secondaries. So perhaps that may give the context of "choice".

@Marblessolveeverything
But ET schools aren't the only type of second-level school that caters to students of different faiths or no faith?
So their number is irrelevant for the purpose of this discussion - precisely because it doesn't actually give any context of the choice available.

Has the school you went to changed much since you attended it? Have you visited recently? Is there a new principal etc?

The number of nuns or brothers in religious schools in Ireland has decreased hugely over the past few decades. When I attended our local school the principal was a nun and so were many of my teachers. Today the principal and vast majority of teachers in that school are lay people. They may be Catholic but, like a lot of Irish people now, many are probably not very religious really. More culturally Catholic as the expression goes.

That will have made a difference to the school. It may not be the same place you experienced.

I am in Ireland and I would send her to the Catholic school. I understand your experience but at secondary it's less in your face..no communion or confirmation. I'll be sending my wee boy to one,our mixed school is over 25 mins away. The whole street goes to it he would be the odd one out

Oh I agree you shouldn’t have to move. I find it utterly appalling that there is no real choice to educate children away from religion.

Is your preferred choice of Educate Together actually non-faith or are these schools multi-denominational?

Either way, the fact is, at second level the majority of Ireland's schools aren't single faith schools at all, albeit by a small margin. So less than 50% of secondary schools are Catholic or other single- faith schools. The others generally cater to all faiths snd none.

It's quite different to the situation at primary school level where about 89% are Catholic.

Moving is neither cheap, nor easy, but it seems to be the obvious solution. I would take dramatic steps to minimize religious education as fact.

Well, if you feel that strongly about it why are you wasting time posting here?

Form an action group of like-minded folks and lobby your political representative in order to enact change.

Chicken spent another thread pissing all over the Catholic Church and yet is now considering sending her child to a Catholic School, even though she has stated quite clearly she has no confidence in them being able to educate her properly!!

That's illogical and hypocrisy with a humungous 'H'.

@Friedgreentomatoestoo so the answer is to not expect our country to provide an education that is promised under our constitution to those of other religions or none , not good enough. My tax and others of similar belief should be sufficient to offer equivalent education choices. It is actually regular issue in the European courts of human rights.

How on earth does a parent educate and work full time to pay bills and provide the social interaction of a school 😔.

This is a right recognised by international courts.

@Chickenkeev in Ireland, population 5 million there are 21 ET secondaries. So perhaps that may give the context of "choice".

Then pull her out of the formal education system and school her at home.

You have a constitutional right to educate your child at home. The Irish Constitution recognises the family as the primary educator of the child and defines the duties and responsibilities for parents and the State in the education of children.

So don't say you have "no choice".

@Friedgreentomatoestoo in Ireland, population 5 million there are 21 ET secondaries. So perhaps that may give the context of "choice".

@Chickenkeev have you reviewed the eligibility for the secondary. Ours is a very small area around the school. And lottery within those that meet criteria. I hope you have the choice but you may be outside criteria. They checked family members addresses very also.

what does your daughter want to do ?