Is it really that hard.....? 🤔

I find this so surprising! Any restaurant I've been in always has both vegan and vegetarian options.

It is a shame about the other parents though. In our school parents group we have 3 children with different allergies (one dairy, one wheat/gluten and one nuts) and we have always provided alternatives ourselves at parties or play dates. Feel bad that we had to keep asking the parents what they like and what would be ok because they have to list it every time!

It's really not that difficult if you're told what's ok. I bought a separate mini cake at DC birthday that was vegan so dairy free obvs but also nut free, then just a wheat/gluten free cupcake for the other child. A lot of the treats they were allowed everyone was so I stuck to them to make it easier but I've never felt it is a hassle.

And for the bbq a bowl of veggie sticks and dip wouldn't be exactly difficult.

Agreed. And not let perfect be the enemy of good. Wherever we choose to make our difference, something is better than nothing.

Completely unrelated to OPs question
But as a previous poster made a statement to the contrary.
Heres some info from Healthline.

Because most people aren’t vegan they have to cater to the majority.
Most people will also eat vegetarian food. Anything labelled Vegan usually gets left because it’s considered not as tasty as other more familiar foods on offer. It’s your choice to exclude so many food types. Just take a packed lunch. YABU.

I think youll find most people who don’t eat animals are doing so to stop their suffering.
A more recent reason is the impact it has on the environment and climate. We know so much more these days due to advanced scientific research.
Religion is another, obviously

The number who follow a vegan or vegetarian diet for health reasons is very small in comparison.

Even harder when you're a coeliac. 😔

I know some have @ signed me but I'm on my phone and it's too much hassle to scroll. Plus I don't know you, you don't know me so it's doesn't really matter either way.

To the poster who asked me about the additives in vegan food. I was a teenager, I ate fruit, chips cooked in vegetable oil if out, if not then Indian or Chinese for a sit down meal. I rarely cooked. I quite liked those Tivali frozen frankfurters but in terms of processed food that was about it.

I started eating diary again because I became malnourished on a vegan diet, even with all the supplements I took. My BMI and blood pressure were dangerously low so something had to give.

When I was trying to conceive then I started eating unprocessed free range meat in low amounts to ensure I provided everything my unborn child needed. This continued throughout breastfeeding and I started thinking about why I felt so energetic and didn't look grey anymore.

I will say that being malnourished through veganism also messed up my metabolism and I'm pretty fat now despite not eating huge amounts. Though to be fair, I started getting properly fat when I lost my waist during peri menopause.

I was a campaigner for Compassion in World Farming so have seen all the videos mentioned from slaughter houses in my teens. This is why I advocate against factory farming and seek to promote ethical meat production.

There is no such thing as a nice death. Whatever the slaughter method, it is quick and as painless as its possible to make it. The animal does not die from disease like some of our poor elderly pets. The animal is not hunted to exhaustion and torn open alive as is the fate of many prey animals. While not anthropomorphising animals, I know which way I would choose to go. And every animal that lives, dies.

To pick the genocide of farm animals over a short, natural life and quick death seems a perverse choice.

Likewise, putting farm animals above your own child's welfare seems utterly bizarre.

I was that irritating brat lecturing the other kids in my class, first about being vegetarian and then more piously on veganism when the dogma took hold in my teens. I ate an awful lot of beans on toast round friends houses while they chowed down on what were actually far healthier omnivore alternatives while congratulating myself that my choice was healthier and, most importantly, morally superior to theirs. However, I have enough self awareness to recognise that I was mistaken.

There's a really good lesson that if you meet arseholes everywhere you go, chances are that the arsehole is you.

And you think your comments are not rude - but you tell others theirs are rude? You sound very militant and unreasonable tbh

Why is this middle class.
The veggies are not expensive or unusual.
Why is it entitlement?!
Youre posting for the sake of it now.
@skullbabe was giving alternative suggestions for a bbq.
Its called being helpful.

Are only the middle class helpful, that’s what you’re suggesting. We obviously need more of them then.

I'm fine with the potato based diet. Known as Food of the Gods in my house, fried, boiled, baked, roasted, mashed I love them all.

I’m really shocked both by your post and some of the responses on here! It’s really NOT “ niche” - huge parts of the world are vegan, and it’s not difficult to cater for. The school not even offering alternative milk is mind blowing! I’m not vegan , but have friends who are and living in the south can honestly say it’s a v rare place we encounter that cannot cater. I think play dates is a different thing - particularly in current economic climate as much cheap popular kids food ( burgers, pizza, pasta ) non vegan and many kids don’t particularly like veg/ spicy foods - so I think cutting some slack/ providing own is easier there - but school absolutely inexcusable!! Every single school I have worked in ( many) caters for vegans.

So a hierachy of creatures who matter? Not so different to meat eaters then, the starting point is just different.

Another thought do vegans have a position on eating insects? Some cultures do but I'm not sure which insects they eat.

Meh given the number of times there isn't an option suitable for a medical gluten free diet (which means no cross contamination, not oh it's gluten free but it's kept in the same box) to be told proudly "oh but we've got this vegan thing!" which is either not gluten free, cross contaminated or quite frankly boring. I don't want to just eat veggies thanks very much.

You choose to have a restricted diet so I'm afraid you just have to suck up that people don't want/cant/will not cater for you. Take a pack lunch like those of us with medical restrictions have too

Maybe the Coeliacs should rise up and enforce the removal of that vile poison gluten/avenin from all foods? After all, it must be completely unethical to insist upon shovelling in something that causes pain, inflammation and ultimately cancer to so many people through even the slightest cross contamination into most foods when it's entirely unnecessary for wheat, rye, spelt, barley and oats (and I'm including those because many coeliacs are also unable to be in contact with avenin due to the protein being very similar to gluten) to be eaten at all.

So no vegan would be permitted to consume Marmite, porridge, bread, seitan, barley miso, udon noodles, most soy sauce, anchovy free worcestershire sauce, pasta, vinegar, many seasonings, pot noodles, oreos, couscous, most chips, cakes, oat milk. Not much in the way of beer, either. Because those foods cause pain and suffering to sentient creatures. They wouldn't be able to feed their companion animals much cheaply, either, as they can also be unable to tolerate gluten side eyes expensively fed rescue cat.

We can enforce the creation of a gluten free high street so that coeliacs can go to any establishment and know that they can consume everything on the menu.

Just think of the land saved from not growing wheat, rye, barley, oats or spelt on it. All replaced by potatoes and corn, maybe some quinoa plantations. A paradise where no cat or human is forced to be doubled up in pain, have visible skin disease, eyesight affected, blood pouring from their orifices or with bowel cancer eating them up from the inside because everyone else wants to carry on eating the foods they've always eaten even when knowing the pain and suffering the manufacturing process causes that 1% of the population that has absolutely no choice due to their protected characteristic of an autoimmune disease/disability but to seek the complete removal of gluten and avenin from the food web.

Coeliacs - Assemble! Our time is now!

Me too 😀

Interesting about the insects. I have to confess I never felt bad about killing cockroaches.

Me neither - I think most people, including vegans, are more bothered by the killing of animals they deem capable of complex thought.

I have to confess I hadn't thought about the dairy industry until we moved here and could hear it. I am probably the only person who isn't up in arms about the farmer selling some land that is now being developed for housing. The work and mess is driving me mad but the cows are now somewhere else, well I assume they are, so I will never lie awake at night listening to them again.

Interesting about the insects. I have to confess I never felt bad about killing cockroaches.

@Iwasafool Yes - I think increased awareness of what happens to animals that aren't necessarily killed in the farming industry has contributed to a rise in veganism. I had literally never heard of people talking about the cruelty in the dairy industry before about 10 years ago, for instance.

I do think death is the bottom line for many people and is harder to look past than other things. It's easier to turn a blind eye to suffering, than to death. Grievous bodily suffering, too - yes there might be humans growing crops etc in awful, unethical working conditions, but they're still not being put through a macerater alive, IYSWIM.

In terms of your question about whether vegans think about these things - whenever I see a debate about veganism, particularly about the environmental impact of eating meat, those sorts of things do come up, usually from the pro- meat eating side arguing that veganism is worse. That often also stretches out into ethics. So I do think most vegans that are actively involved in any kind of discourse around the subject are likely to have at least thought about it.

I haven't thought of this before but do vegans worry about the insects that will be killed in farming their food? I'm not sure what they'd do about it but farming must kill insects and presumably animals lose habit when land is claimed for farming.

Actually expanding on that do vegans kill vermin? I grew up in an inner city slum, fight cockroaches was just part of life but what would a vegan do? Is killing a living creature ever OK?

I'm not sure that is true. When I hear the cows and their calves when they are separated it seems like terrible suffering and it goes on for days. If they were slaughtered it would be over and done wouldn't it.

And of course the cows go through that over and over again.

@7Worfs exactly this. Couldn’t have put it better myself

It seems we all agree that in a global economy and prevailing rabid consumerism it’s very difficult (maybe even impossible) to buy 100% ethical stuff with zero environmental impact (food or otherwise).
The best we can do is choose what we care most about and do the least harm we can with the resources we have.
Peace out.
Live long and prosper.

@StillGotBabyBrain thanks for this - you echo what I had assumed. I must admit I don’t actually know anyone vegan to have this discussion/debate with in real life!
You’re so right that these things all
come down to affordability though. Educating our kids to make informed choices is important. The world is so very broken in many ways. I’lol go away now 😁