Internal job applicants grrr....

I've been at an interview where there were 3 external and 1 internal candidates. The internal one had applied for the job 2 times already, and seen it go to external. Then the external had left quickly. She'd actually already been doing the job as the interim HoD but they still advertised and interviewed.

I felt so bad for her. If she's good enough to do the job as an interim, she's good enough to do the job. Luckily, they did give her the job on her 3rd attempt, but she was nervous as hell. It certainly wasn't a done deal.

I've been on the other side. I was an external auditor/accountant who went monthly to do management accounts etc for a fast growing firm, and they wanted an in-house accountant. I was offered the job informally (they were sounding me out as to whether I wanted it or not), and we agreed terms, wages, etc., and a start date. There was no formal "recruitment" for me, I never gave in my cv nor even an application form. Then they said they'd "have to" advertise it externally but it was "just a formality". I felt really bad and guilty as I knew there'd be lots of people spending their time making applications and going for interviews, but it was all smoke and mirrors. Needless to say, after all that, nothing changed, and I still started the job on the day agreed, I didn't even get a formal job offer and only signed the contract of employment on my start date! Completely unfair all round. Once I was established, I made sure they became aware that there was no legal requirement and I certainly never put any future jobs under my control advertised for external applicants if I'd already decided on an internal promotion, and over time, I think the message got through to other departmental managers there was no need for external adverts either if they had a "good fit" already.

I think it's some kind of massive misunderstanding. There is no law requiring jobs to be advertised externally. Yet, so many firms, HR depts, and managers seem to think it's compulsory. Then everyone's time is wasted, not just the applicants, but also HR and management spending a day doing multiple interviews when they already know who's got the job.

I had this a few years back. Went through three interviews in addition to the initial screening. All three interviews involved taking a day off as there was travel involved and they were in-person. One required a 30 minute presentation with slide deck.

Internal candidate was a better fit for the role as although I was more experienced and senior, they had X system experience. I sent back a very polite but candid email expressing disappointment at the recruitment experience. Pointing out that the system experience they claimed was so vital for the role, was never going to be possible for an external candidate as it was the firm's own bespoke software, and was not listed on the role description as a requirement.

Never got a response, but six months later I got a phone call from them asking if I was still interested in working there. I made suitable noises long enough to find out that their internal candidate had decided that after giving it a go they didn't want the step up after all as they didn't have enough experience. Told them I'd have a think about it and let them know and then ghosted the fuckers.

You're lucky! It happened to me 6 times with NHS advertised posts !

On one occasion the manager told all of us in the dept (separately) that she wanted to promote from inside', to encourage more applications, no doubt. Then when we all applied, she appointed a 'stranger'.

On another occasion myself and another lady applied for a promotion. She got the job. I was told by the boss that it was because she was a lot older and it would help make sure she got a bigger pension.😮
6 months later she died and no-one from the dept applied when the post was re-advertised. Mainly it was because she was the 2nd person to die in that post and we felt it was a bit odd.😨

I’m on the employer end and I hate it too. Rules say we HAVE to advertise externally even though Internal Candidate has worked with us for two years is a super user on the relevant systems and brings in cookies for people’s birthdays.

The company I work for does this. They have a policy of advertising all jobs, even if they already know who they want, because they have to be seen to be fair.

I’d argue that letting people waste their time applying and interviewing for a job they have zero chance of getting, is completely unfair.

It's such an unfair way of doing things, happens so much in charities. I always remember one candidate who came for an interview somewhere I worked, and I was the one who saw him out - he was beaming, thought the interview had gone so well. Turns out he was a friend of a friend, who later said to me that week how much the guy wanted the job. I knew it was always going to go to the internal candidate, but couldn't pass that on through our mutual friend, so he never knew why he really didn't get it.

Huge waste of everyone's time: the panel going through the farce of shortlisting and interviewing, the admins who dealt with the job packs, and most importantly anyone who completed an application and took time off work to interview. Just to have the appearance of being open.

This has happened to me so many times - even flew to foreign countries just to be told they were going with the internal candidate after all.
Until their preferred candidate messed up their interview so badly they couldn’t justify hiring them. That’s how I got my current job. It can happen! (just bring your voodoo doll)

We keep a list where I work. We went through a hiring process for one of my teams a few months ago, and a few weeks after finalizing it another vacancy came up and rather than re-advertise we called our second choice who was still available and he took the job. So some places really do keep your CV on file for future roles, it's not just a line.

Is it private or public sector? If its private they don't need to advertise it so why bother? If its public they might get an excellent candidate which will be awkward for you!

At the moment I'm the internal candidate being lined up for a position and I do feel a bit guilty about it. I can't apply for another couple of months for various reasons so the department manager is waiting until I give him the nod before he advertises it. He wants me to do the job so it would be much easier if he could just give it me and not have to put everyone through this nonsense.

Public sector and have recruited a number of times. Both internal and external candidates have been appointed.

An internal candidate is frequently in a stronger position as they know the organisation and the team, but even if you have a preferred candidate at the start of the process, you don’t know if they are going to apply, if they will be shortlisted or be successful at interview. Even is someone is a strong candidate on paper, they don’t always perform well at interview. I have had internal candidates think that they will be a natural for the position and don’t put the necessary effort into the process, make massive assumptions when responding to questions at interview and consequentially don’t score well. I have had other internal candidates that have been a bag of nerves and didn’t come across well.

tbh a lot of the time an external candidate would have been preferred as an internal candidate being successful then creates a vacancy and the whole process starts again. At the end of the day it boils down to the highest scoring candidate and if candidates scored equally, it would have been the best fit. Best fit isn’t necessarily an internal candidate.

Every job should be required to say if they have an internal candidate. I just applied for a job with very niche requirements which I fulfilled. I didn’t even get an interview. I was told by someone close to the company that that was probably because they’d have to take me if they interviewed me and didn’t want to do that because they already had someone internally lined up for the job.

It annoys me and I resent wasting my time applying for a job they’d already lined up for their mate.

I loved running a small company and having the opportunity to just pick and choose whether we advertised externally or not.

Almost always, our preference was not to create a role, but to develop people up through their desired trajectory, provided that was something useful for the company.

New external hires were mostly starter grades.

I work in the NHS and the majority of our posts are advertised externally.

I procured one a band up, but, I worked hard for it and tbh, I am excellent at interviews.

Have seen numerous posts go external, to really good applicants.

I have also interviewed and appointed internal applicants as they were excellent. The external applicants were nowhere near as good. And tbh, with staffing levels so low internally, successful external applicants would have been a bonus to the department.

Blame the ridiculous UC rules for that, claimants have to do so many applications it is no surprise that they just end up applying for anything especially if going through portals that will self populate the majority of fields.

I think the alternative of having a huge pool of just internal jobs isn't overly fair either, I know this used to be common in the public sector but a) you miss out on experienced candidates who have worked elsewhere, b) you often end up with people getting comfortable and then being promoted as they know the job rather than being the best person for it, c) invariably most of the external jobs are then lower bands and grades which again means you miss out on external candidates who don't want to start from the bottom as it were. I agree it's a waste of time in certain sectors where they can do what they like a bit, but the process should still be followed in the public sector. We have employed people who applied externally over internal candidates who didn't perform as well.

Do any of these jobs keep a merit list of candidates who were only just second choice? That is the way I got my most recent role, I didn't get the job, it was given to an internal candidate for but got merit listed and when another job with the same JD in the nearby geographical area was advertised I was offered it.

@JudgeRudy I’m senior roles they often have an idea as the pool of experienced people is narrow.

My last 3 nhs interviews… second place each time as an internal candidate had direct experience. Two of them I knew from working with them in joint organisation meetings. One I like the other is useless… that one still stings especially when I hear others talking about how awful she is and how they’ve no idea how she got the job.

Two interviews were one organisation. After first they told me I was too senior and please please apply for new role… which they then didn’t give me. Their behaviour has shown me I wouldn’t want to work in that team so I guess it worked out. The other time was frustrating but they were very nice and helpful feedback so I feel less annoyed at that one.

Perhaps I'm naive but I don't believe jobs in the public sector are already allocated. I think the interview processes are as fair as possible and the person that gets the job is the one that performed best on the day not necessarily the best applicant or the internal candidate they all wanted. If it does go to an insider it's because they answered the Qs well and had the necessary experience.
Gone are the days when you can just like the look of someone.

@NameChange245 i also work in the public sector, and was similarly stuck in a very bottom heavy structure. I had well outgrown my role. This sounds mad, but actually what worked was applying for 2 grades up!! I had to make a huge effort to volunteer for tasks, seek out opportunities, lots of mentoring etc, but I skipped a grade. Not deliberately, but I thought I had nothing to lose by applying for it.