That two parents working doesn’t work

I absolutely raised my children,. And I cooked and socialised too. Gardening not so much because guess what? Some people don't like gardening.

Your rose tinted SAHM utopia never existed for the majority of women, by the way.

@hollybubs Lots of women want children, and to be able to raise them. Not all of us do, of course. But for the many who do, are we 'freer' today? Is it freedom, to have no choice but to work, live stressful lives and pay others to look after our kids? Fine for those who want to work and use childcare – I'm genuinely not judging them. But I'm saying that the ordinary woman today doesn't get to choose.

I find this muddled and slightly insulting.

What do you mean by the “ordinary” woman? Your post implies that women who want to work are unusual or exceptional which I don’t accept. For generations of women the expectation they would stop working when they had children was a huge burden which did a lot of damage to their lives. My mother’s life was essentially ruined by her inability to get back into work after having children. She was miserable as a SAHM.

Millions of very ordinary women work.

You still have a choice anyway. It’s perfectly possible to live on one salary in many areas of the UK.

Also finally do you think women who don’t work don’t raise their own children? I work FT, always have done. I’m absolutely certain beyond doubt that I have raised my child. I am by far the most important person in her life. What gives you the right to imply that because I have a job I haven’t raised her?

But working parents do raise their children.

Nursery care for our child when DH and I are at work but they don’t raise him. We do.

This resonates with me so much! I am in a similar situation - also with 3 kids of similar ages - but I work 3 days and do think that helps slightly with the load.
I admit I do a half arsed job on my one wfh day as I also clean the house and sort outgrown clothes/do kid admin etc… but I reason with myself that if I was in the office that is the amount of time I would be in useless conversations/meetings.
It is such a struggle though and I really wish I could afford to not work while they are young so I can keep on top of things but we can’t afford it.
Could you reduce your hours to 3 days a week?

I completely feel you, I have kids exactly the same age, just returned to work after MAT leave on 4 days a week. Some days I absolutely wing it, sometimes I think fuck I need to lay down and chill in the evening. If the house looks a tip whilst we’re both working so be it, it’ll get sorted when we’re both off work. Don’t be so hard on yourself, sounds like you’re absolutely smashing it! 💪🏼

No. Women can take up to 12 months of maternity leave.

Pregnancy/childbirth/breastfeeding doesn’t mean you have to spend years at home.

England also has poor breastfeeding rates so most women don’t breastfeed long term.

It’s a societal issue. Society is sexist and believes women should be the default parent.

"Oh well done you for convincing someone to carry you around like a dead weight. Many parents don’t have the choice. Still more wealthy parents both work full time from home on flexible hours and still see their kids milestones without one parent needing to subsidise the other. Lets see if your DH can see the value you bring when all the kids are at school."

Cringe!!!!

Ah I just briefly looked at your threads and can see you are saying similar things.

Yes people are entitled to their own opinion, but the choice has defo been swept from under our feet sadly.

My grandmothers had 4-5 kids each and husbands in regular jobs. They had spacious houses, beautiful gardens, lived well on one income and enjoyed their daily lives. They had time to cook good food, create beautiful gardens and socialise with friends, relatives and community.

Is that an option for an ordinary woman today? Apparently everything is so much better now...

Lots of women want children, and to be able to raise them. Not all of us do, of course. But for the many who do, are we 'freer' today? Is it freedom, to have no choice but to work, live stressful lives and pay others to look after our kids? Fine for those who want to work and use childcare – I'm genuinely not judging them. But I'm saying that the ordinary woman today doesn't get to choose.

Yes I hear you. I agree with you partly but I think inevitably biology largely dictates this. Pregnancy/childbirth/ feeding. But yes men should equally share child rearing but then it will always come down to the women’s choice on who stays home. Nothing is ever equal.. that’s life. But it’s defo come a long way and still some way to go.

No and I totally get that. There are many women (or men) who would love to have the chance to look after their kids more during the week. It’s a sad time we are living in that most now need two wages to live.

That mainly stems from the biology of pregnancy and childbirth / lactation does it not? And that can’t be changed.

I know it’s a privilege which I have said upthread is really sad times as many women / men would love to be stay at home parents.

Thank you for acknowledging that not every couple with 2 working parents has a choice for one/both to be a SAHP.

Your opinions re child's best interests have upset people who don't have the choice (and understandably so).

Thank you. You have summed up what I am trying to say. You will probably get lambasted on here of course because apparently women arnt meant to feel like they want to care for their kids any more- seems to be a dirty word, like you’ve done something wrong.
IMO the choice has mostly been taken away from women now and even those who would love to stay with their babies / young kids can’t.

The issue though is that it is only ever an expectation of women. Even 30 years later, it is still almost always women who are SAHP's and almost always women who go part time after having children.

What would be great is if it was more equal and the pressure wasn't always put on the woman to sacrifice her career.

For one parent!!! Kids over career for One parent! Woman or man. Bloody hell.

No it doesn't work. It just doesn't. And many many people are in the same boat.

Every day we muddled through when our kids were small. No matter what you do, something takes a hit whether it's your career, kids or home life or even personal well being.

Don't shoot me down Mumsnetters but it's great women have 'choice' to work, (is it even a choice anymore) vote etc but sometimes maybe it was pushed too hard. 30 years ago I could have been at home with my babies, cooking decent home meals, enjoying messy play, teaching and nurturing the children as we should be. Instead I have to work full time ... house prices are aimed at 2+ incomes now.. I wonder why...

"he’s not doing it because of no second income"

You said the choice should be kids over career. Your husband doesn't agree, he picked career. He could have easily done a job that didn't mean him not seeing his children for literal days at a time.

It is just interesting how you justify a man working those sorts of hours, but have such an issue with a woman working a standard 9-5 day and how awful it is.

@Itsmyshadow

It is going to get better when the little one goes to reception. I promise.

It is a shame that in this country grandparents are so "lightly" involved

I’ve said either parent, repeatedly.

You are making it up. We need the money his job provides otherwise there would be no money?

I know it’s a privilege which I have said upthread is really sad times as many women / men would love to be stay at home parents.
My DH took a back seat in day to day parenting to earn the money. I took a back seat earning money to take care of the children which we both considered an extremely important role. We have both felt valued by the other and no one is ‘lesser’ in either role.
Shit parent is way over the top.
But as I have said before repeatedly, I believe it’s in the children’s best interests is a parent, man or woman, is the main day to day caregiver during the pre school years in particular.
People on here want to keep smashing the sexism banner in my face. I’ve repeatedly said either parent!!!

Did I say that? Or was my comment quite obviously aimed at the father who didn't see his children for days at a time due to the career he choose, despite not needing the money.

You said it should be the mum though.

Oh well done you for convincing someone to carry you around like a dead weight. Many parents don’t have the choice. Still more wealthy parents both work full time from home on flexible hours and still see their kids milestones without one parent needing to subsidise the other. Lets see if your DH can see the value you bring when all the kids are at school.