That two parents working doesn’t work

Imagine how many people don’t earn enough to have help in the morning. Imagine that although the mornings are hard work, it’s valuable for us all to eat breakfast together as a family. Imagine not leaving for work at 7am, sounds shit.

I’d love to outsource loads of stuff but not so I can work more, Jesus Christ. If Mary Poppins came to my house at 7am and took care of the house and kids I’d go and have a bath, read a book and potter in the garden.

What is the competition? Being miserable? And what’s the prize? Climate crisis?

Imagine if you had help in the morning so you could leave for work at 7am or spend time with your children and leave at 9am to finish work later.

For people who want this, good luck to them, but to some of us that sounds rather undesirable.

@bussteward 2nd shift is work and much of it is stuff I outsource so I have more time to myself and my children. Imagine if you had help in the morning so you could leave for work at 7am or spend time with your children and leave at 9am to finish work later.

@CatsSnore open your eyes, we aren’t competing against Europe. The competition is from rest of the world and they are all working a lot harder and are smarter on average than the average Brit or European.

This is pretty silly.

A PP has already done the 50 hours free time bit, so I'll focus on the level of unwarranted faith you're showing in a 40-50 hour standard week as maximising productivity. There's no research to suggest this. For some people, their productivity will be maximised doing much less.

Nonsense. The working week is just there to keep most people busy. It’s made up, we could make up a four-day week instead, or make medical and C education jobs more appealing so more staff doing fewer hours each cover whatever amount of time is necessary for each. We didn’t used to have weekends, or eight-hour days; those were introduced and capitalism continued unabated; it will be fine even if people want a better balance. I don’t know anyone stupid enough to work a 50-hour week or support one.

Once you take into account commute time, that lunch breaks are close to your job locale so not hours that can be lumped together into your “50 own hours”, getting ready for work, sleeping, and what the OP is talking about which is all the invisible work and mental load and housework and childcare, no one has 50 hours. It’s disingenuous to suggest it’s the case.

6-9am with the kids doing the “second shift” of life, breakfasts and nursery runs and school runs, thankfully no commute
9-6 job to clock my necessary 8 hours in your dystopia (ooh, with my one hour lunch break own time!)
6-8 dinner, time with kids, bath and bedtimes - the true second shift
8-9 necessary household chores to keep life ticking, eg dishwasher, top-up shop, admin, world book day costume or £1 for mufti or whatever, packing the nursery bag, etc etc
9-10 That sweet hour of my own time
10pm-6am sleep because otherwise I’m a monster

Obviously you’re counting commutes and household drudgery and school runs as part of that sweet 50 hours we’ve all got spare but it’s not much of a life, is it? Wait, I’ve only clocked 40 hours, better give up some sleep or 10 hours of weekend to keep the UK economy from collapsing!

It's really not normal in any European country to dedicate half of your life to working hours. Working like a pack horse will not bring you a good life, physically or emotionally. As for services.. well if billionaire corporate firms paid their fair share of tax instead of evading it higher earners wouldn't have to pay more and neither would the increasingly squeezed middle.

@CatsSnore Working 40-50 hours a week is completely normal and if we choose to work less hours as a society we need to make peace with less of everything including access to medical care and education. Personally, I’m not ok with that. Working 50 hours a week still gives you approx 50 hours a week of your own time. How is that not balanced?

I'm so happy we live in a country where over 40hrs a week isn't the norm. What an awful work/life/family balance that must be.

It’s apparently beyond these people’s comprehension that some of us actually need to work.

Some women want to work also and there is nothing wrong with that. It's interesting because if a man has a partner who is a higher earner and wouldn't starve without his wages than them no one analyses his motivations for continuing to work.

Wage top ups are entirely different from benefits imo. Thats what they should be called, businesses subsidise not universal credits to the employees. Business should be made to claim and implement them and all the paperwork and over payment processing falls to the business, its not the employees problem but its made their problem by the stupid ass government.

@Aintnosupermum you are a super mum earning ‘a lot more’ more than 300k without even being in a senior leadership role. Wow.

And won’t need benefits as pensioners either.

As a single mother who has 3 children I find it laughable that this is the debate around benefits.

I used my education and worked my ass off to get myself in a position where I can earn enough. I’m earning a lot more than £300k a year and with the ridiculous taxation and overly generous benefits system I’m paying way more than my fair share if I live in the UK. I’ve been offered senior leadership roles but declined.

In the real world there are many many families working 50 hours a week each and they have childcare and help running their home as a standard basic function of living. It gives a job to someone who can’t work long hours or doesn’t have the education.

The UK economy is absolutely stuffed if people are not willing to work 40-45 hours a week. The main reason why people aren’t willing or able to work more hours is because the benefits system penalizes those who do. It’s a very silly system. There needs to be a whole recalibration of benefits and income taxes on lower wage earners.

It’s hard! I would suggest cutting out some of the clubs, they don’t need them. Swimming is important but the others can go! . Can they not swim another time so you at least get one day at home to do the chores? It’s a mums job to feel guilty, you are not alone - the kids still grow up fine 😊

@3BSHKATS I'm talking about working single mums though, who may still need benefits due to not earning enough if they don't work full time (or even if they do). So many people say mums should work part time or not at all but then berate them for not being financially independent.

None of the people who bang on about the evils of “farming out” your kids appear to have given this a minute’s thought.

Dont you understand there’s always a man breadwinning and the mum is play acting at having a job because she wants to wear a suit with big shoulderpads or buy expensive shoes?

It’s apparently beyond these people’s comprehension that some of us actually need to work.

100%

You are right. Some SAHM's aren't great at it.

Including some middle class ones. Society just makes it easier for those with money to hide it.

An accurate one though

What a gross stereotype.

To be fair this was where sure Staf was absolutely brilliant because so many of the not middle class married Mums that we stay at home mum’s on benefit were neither use nor ornament to the children. And many of them were actually a hindrance to the kids development. Being such a pushchair and given a Greggs sausage roll, whilst being wheeled around all day vs in a stimulating nursery environment is a complete no brainer. Not all stay at home Mum’s are created equally.

Just saying if I saw a lone parent who wasn’t working I wouldn’t give a shit, and I think most people I know as the same. I was a sahm for nine years and when I went back to work I got congratulated like it was the best thing I could have done but in the same breath told it would be tough on the kids but good for them. When, a few years later I considered leaving (my mum was having trouble, my db wasn’t in a great place (he has as) and two of my sons had constant ear infections and what with doctor and hospital appointments and me trying to get to my mum when I had a chance both myself and dh were constantly in trouble with work, both fighting, both wrecked, also house was falling apart) I got horrible horrible comments- basically your poor dh, had a bit of help with the bills now you’re going back to being a lady of leisure etc etc. I stayed on in work but honestly it taught me a lot. People who make comments are not in your situation, will never ever know your struggles and will moan and bitch about something else if you give in to their opinions!!

I was on a thread here years ago that a single mum started, she agonising over whether to work or not with a toddler. A married SAHM had the cheek to come onto to the thread to tell her that she should work for her own self respect. I, a full time working single mum, told the married SAHM that she should also go to work for her own self respect. It didn't go down well?

@PurpleButterflyWings what is your opinion on single mums claiming benefits to enable part time working? So many people say mums should be at home, but only if they're nice middle class and married.

Of course I do recognise that unfortunately lone parents don’t have that option.