That two parents working doesn’t work

a message to all of you. It gets better - it really does - youngest is about to start 6th form, oldest has pretty much left home and feeling like you do now seems like such a long time ago.

Don't worry about a bit of mess - teach the kids to clear up after themselves and one day in a couple of years you will look round and realise it's all not as bad as it was - there will still be mess but it wont be so bad and it will generally keep getting better. You will make friends with other parents and share the extra curriculars with them - maybe even socialise together.

One day you will realise that you have brought up useful self sufficient kids and you have time for a life of your own. This time does pass it really does.

I have no idea how 2 parents can work FT. I'd have a nervous breakdown if I had to do that and DH is very good home/child wise.

My kids are older (16 and 11) and I'm still PT. I was a SAHM til they went to school. I just know I'd feel like I wasn't doing anything well if I was working FT. I still couldn't do it now (and nor would I want to)

I have 1 right now. Most people do get a choice is the point.

@Wenfy

They can cash in a child free day when they both do 45 hours a week and do morning clubs and after school clubs send holiday clubs?

When do they even see their children?

Op i do a job that fits around dc for this reason and even if struggle to keep on top of the things!

@PurpleWisteria1 If you work full time you will be spending almost half the child’s waking time away from them (unless you work nights- but then when do you sleep?)
So it’s fair to say someone else is also responsible for raising them, whether you like it or not, it’s a fact.

If your children go to school they spend over half their waking time away from you. So it’s fair to say someone else is also responsible for raising them, whether you like it or not, it’s a fact.

I also have 3 kids similarly spaced to yours.. you are in the trenches… this is the absolute hardest bit of it and it absolutely will get better with time. Mine are now 3, 7 and 10 and it’s so so much more manageable.

We all bring our own experiences. I remember very fondly having the house to myself after school and in the holidays. I really liked the peace and quiet and independence

I had a working mum which meant me and my siblings were with a childminder when young. Over the age of 10 coming home to an empty house / being with one sister in the school holidays on our own and then when 12+ looking after younger siblings.
Its one of the reasons I wanted to be there for my kids every day before and after school. I just wanted my mum on those occasions.

I thought you said husband did eldest child's activities run around? So why is it upsetting you?

In your position @Thepeopleversuswork I sound feel the same as you. But I'm not in your position. I am parenting my way in my circumstances. That's it.

Lucky your second wasn’t twins then! Some of us didn’t have a choice!!

Doing it your own way is something we can agree on.

I'm incredibly proud to have a successful career and to be able to provide for my child. I had a SAHM growing up and I knew that if I ever had a child, I'd do things differently.

3-4+ children can definitely make things more complex/complicated, especially when both parents working are involved which is why I wouldn't have more than 2 children.

he is a man and he is proud to provide for his family so his children can have their mum around and all the opportunities they have had as a result of him providing and me having the time, headspace and enjoyment of actually doing it with them. And there is nothing wrong with that. I respect him the more for this privilege because it really has been a privilege.

I’m a mum and I’m proud to provide for my family too. And I manage to find time, headspace and enjoyment for my DD too. Which is just as well really because there’s no-one else who can do it.

I know my child well too and I love her as do most other women who choose to work.

I find your perspective narrow minded and judgmental. You can choose to organise your family as you see fit with no judgment from me but you have no right to say you are a better parent because you don’t work.

@SouthLondonMum22 and @Thepeopleversuswork - when I say, 'be with your children,' of course women and men who work are with their children, just to a lesser degree. It depends how much they work and where! Aside from that, it came down to one question for me - "Who is the best person to be around for my kids the majority of their (awake) day?" The answer is "me" - because I am their mum, I know them best and I love them ." So that's the end of it. There are many things I will compromise on in life. That was not one of them. I did not want to have to pay someone else to be with my kids. Zero interest and totally unnecessary in my case. It's also about headspace. 4 kids take up a lot of headspace. My DH is fantastic with the kids and has done loads over the years, including many things I have not, but he gets it. He is not me and not dies he need to be - he is a man and he is proud to provide for his family so his children can have their mum around and all the opportunities they have had as a result of him providing and me having the time, headspace and enjoyment of actually doing it with them. And there is nothing wrong with that. I respect him the more for this privilege because it really has been a privilege.

They are only little a short time. As they grow up, life changes. They need their dads in ways they do not need mums and vice versa. Kids are all different - you grow and adapt with them. Actually, looking back, the early years are the easy phase. It's gets far more complex when you have multiple children with multiple issues at multiple schools - the emotional dramas, friends, education, hobbies - the whole thing. I can look back now over 20 years of 4 kids and we did it our way. That's all you can do really.

I finished my FT job, it paid well and we have REALLY had to adjust to a much lower wage, I don’t mind saying goodbye to my career for now as my kids are WAY more important - and my sanity also!
have a look at casual zero hours jobs so you pick and choose as much as they do, not work at all if an option or local school jobs so you finish earlier and get the holidays off.

good luck.

3 kids is a lot, especially with the large age gap between your eldest and youngest. - they're all at different stages now, it's bound to be difficult.

We only have 1 DC, reception age, so it's a lot easier than your set-up, but I've found that tidying as you go is much easier than letting it get really messy and then trying to clean and tidy - it's soul-sapping and difficult to muster the energy to sort it out once it gets into a state. Also, limit the after-school activities. DS does 2 - climbing and swimming (which is obviously essential). Any more would be tricky (although he might start Cubs next year, as long as I can catch up on work whilst he's there).

Re: exercise/downtime for me/DH, whilst DS is at climbing, I go for a run, and whilst he's in his swimming lesson I also swim, or go to the gym. Then we do Park Run together at the weekend, and I run at lunchtimes. DH does the same. That leaves other evenings free for cooking, games, family stuff, and a bit of tidying. Then DH and I have time together once DS is asleep. Sometimes we'll cook together (or DH will cook and I'll sit at the table and chop/peel and chat to him), which gets another chore out of the way and helps us relax together at the same time.

I am very organised with stuff like meal planning, shopping, exercise time, life admin - otherwise things end up taking twice as long. It takes some spontaneity out, but makes up for it with time saved and stress avoided.

But women who work don’t “not want to be with their children”. That’s a huge and fairly insulting mischaracterisation.

Many of us have no choice and have to work. Plenty of women feel that the time they spend with their children is enhanced by the fact that have interests outside of family life and they aren’t exclusively focused on being a parent. A large number of us feel that we want to be economically productive, both for ourselves and our children. No woman‘a value as a mother is diminished by feeling any of these things.

And finally children go to school at four or five anyway. No mother could be with their children all the time beyond that point anyway. Why should it be normal for a child to be parted from its mother at six but damaging at three and a half? It doesn’t really stand up does it?

Earning money to support your family is a pretty fundamental part of being a parent.

Exactly.

Maybe I need to tell nursery to buy him nappies, formula and clothes since they are the ones who raise him.

But I do want to be with my child, just not 24/7.

I want to be with my child
I want to be there for my child
I want to raise my child

I just don't want to be a SAHM.

“So those of you who work a lot of hours and have young kids. How are you managing?”

I’m not managing.

Of course he bloody doesn't! It's an interesting question isn't it.

SouthLondonMum22 - Some women don't want children at all. There's not something wrong with them. But, others (most) do, and there is nothing wrong with them either is there? It's the same with wanting to be with your children. Just because some women don't feel like that so much, it has no bearing on those who do.

@SouthLondonMum22

It's also frustrating to be told or it implied that you aren't raising your child, you're never there for them and clearly something must be wrong with you biologically because you don't want to be with your child 24/7.

Quite. Frustrating, stupid and pretty offensive actually.

I’m a single parent who has almost no input (financial or otherwise) from my daughter’s biological parent so if I didn’t work my daughter would live a much diminished life with a fair amount of hardship. Should a “strong biological urge” to be with my child all the time have overridden the need to put a roof over her head and food in her stomach? No, didn’t think so.

Even if I didn’t have to work the measure of my being a good parent isn’t purely the amount of time in the day spent with your child. Earning money to support your family is a pretty fundamental part of being a parent.

Anyone telling me I’m not a proper parent or am biologically lacking because I work can jog on.

You believe it is largely biological. If it is, what does that mean for the women who don't feel the same as you do? Surely it implies that something is wrong with them?

You also said wanting to be there for your child, like it means working parents aren't there for their child.

Several have commented about not raising the child. In fact, I've now lost count how many.

I feel like I’m failing at everything to be honest. House is a state, am not on top of my work, kids in nursery and after school club for long hours, and don’t even get me started on the amount of after school sporting activities DC1 does which don’t really fit with going to work.

This bit in your OP struck me @Itsmyshadow - does your DH have the same sense of failing out of curiosity, or is it just you that feels like that? If its just you, why do you feel the responsibility (and therefore the failure) rests on your shoulders alone?