That two parents working doesn’t work

I recommend this book so much that I’m sure people think I’m getting some kind of kickback - but I’m not! It’s called Fair Play by Eve Rodsky. Read it, then sit down with your husband and have an honest conversation about how you can work together better to manage the house. This includes the metal load. It’s got some really good suggestions on splitting it up more fairly. It’s absolutely changed my marriage. It took a lot of hard conversations and we need to revisit it every now and then, it’s not the be all and end all but it gives you some very useful tools. Try read a summary online if you don’t have time to read the whole book right away. Think of it like a challenging work project - would you just go on and on, year after year, without the support you need? Or would you have a chat with your manager and colleagues to figure out a more effective way forward? With better support? This is the way it needs to be approached. But you can’t expect results without a bit of resistance and teething pains - stick it out, it’ll be worth it.
and yes kids absolutely need to be tidying up after themselves, stacking the dishwasher, putting away their own clothes and toys. Even the four year old can have a few responsibilities. And your eight year old can do a lot more than you think, he will relish the extra responsibility and faith you put in him. Good luck!

My husband and I work shift work in 2 very different industries but both are open and running 24/7 365 days a year. We work around each other. We try and keep 1 or 2 days a week off, one during the week and 1 weekend day. This has helped massively with the children, no nursery fees. I think a lot of us have got try and leave the 9-5 work behind just for ease and flexibility. I’m going back to studying once my youngest is settled in school. Now is the time. Easier said than done of course.

I sympathise and am in the same boat. We both work full time hours but me in four days and him at evenings. The house is never tidy, the washing never completely done… but it’s safe and the important bits are clean. I just try to let go of the cleaning expectations a bit. My children don’t care and it’s their childhood.

A lot of people here talk about giving up work like it’s optional. For many of us it isn’t. We’re not choosing “career”, we’re working to pay our bills. I think it’ll be easier when my 2nd daughter starts funded pre-school. It might free up some money for a cleaner, or allow us some time to do more regular declutters.

There truly are no words for the sexism and gross generalisation here. My children are older I assumed this sort of shit had died out in the intervening 15 years.

I am just not short termist, I think of pension, long term security for all of us.

OP can you/ DH find jobs with flexibility? That’s how we cope with both being FT. Also I really don’t carry all the mental load, DH deals with all of the school stuff. If you don’t do it then they pick it up ime.

@SouthLondonMum22

But you aren't allowed to find maternity leave or being a SAHM boring or dreary of course. 🙄

God no that would be to devalue the role of mother as caregiver and that is verboten. It’s only careers that are dreary don’t you know?

I hate the situation of working 4 days, being paid for 4, but doing 5 days' work - this should be illegal, but it can be hard to stop it happening! I've been there, when my DCs were much younger - I cut my (paid) hours but ended up working nearly as much as previously, except not getting paid for it, more fool me. I'm now retired, and had contemplated at one point easing myself into retirement by cutting back to 3 or 4 days, until I realised nobody would do my job on the other days, so I chose not to go down that route. I do know people who work full-time, where they have condensed their FT hours into 4 long days and that's the only way I think you can win at this game. not everyone can make this work either, of course.
Sorry I have no real answers, OP, but I'm sure you're doing your best.

You are not being unreasonable. Ive been through this thought process myself- worked a good job trying to juggle kids, the house, life and my job. I was doing a crap job all around and very miserable. I couldn't carry on. So I've handed in my notice. I, personally, couldn't have it all- something had to give- and for me, that was my career.

On similar threads, mother's income is always treated as optional, for luxuries, not really necessary. I don't get it, surely all women are not just working for nominal pin-money nowadays? Family income is a key determinant of healthy child development, affecting them also later in their lives as adults. And having 2 careers is much safer in case of job loss, illness, death or if the other parent just decides that they do not wish to contribute to this family any more.

While those who advocate keeping hold of your career throughout raising children have very good points especially financial security, personal autonomy, career fulfillment, and avoiding being unable to find anything after an absence from the workforce, as a parent you’re going to be losing out on something to a degree because you can’t be in two places at once and trying to hold on to both part time often leads to dissatisfaction and frustration with both work and parenthood. Ultimately, I knew I’d rather lose out a bit or a lot on my career than lose out on spending time with my child and rushing and unable to fully have what I wanted more than a career. It’s difficult, I think I’d do full time parenting for a few years if I were you, but you have t decide for yourself. Lots of good points on this thread. It’s a dilemma for sure that’s not easily solved.

Exactly.

I heard a researcher being interviewed on R4 a while back who had found that mothers now who are in FT work spend the same amount of time on childcare as SAHMs did in the 1970s.

I found this an incredibly sobering thought. Even taking into account that it was much more accepted in the 70s for children to play out unsupervised, I think there are all sorts of things that women now have to sacrifice in order to make the sums add up. Including their own wellbeing, in many cases.

You chose to have 3 children and they’re all
pretty young. Of course it will be hard.

If you’re doing your FT job why aren’t you being paid FT?
I’ve just returned from Mat leave and doing FT over 4 days but my pay hasn’t changed so sounds a little unfair. I do slightly longer days or fit in a bit extra wfh where I can.

Sorry I know that wasn’t the point of the post but if your work load hasn’t been reduced with your days I’d ask for it to be. Might make you feel you’re struggling less in one aspect.

What’s your point? She didn’t say she is surprised, she said it’s hard. Things can be both hard and still the right decision and foresight doesn’t mean we don’t deserve support or advice

I feel your pain entirely. I have, what would traditionally be called a high powered job, work full time and there’s no option to reduce hours. The saving grace is that I work from home probably 70% of the time since covid. My husband also works FT & we have 2 children, aged 3 and 1. I struggle with all the things you describe and our set up is similar to yours - equal parenting between DH and I, but I shoulder the mental load.

Some days I am totally overwhelmed and feel like I could cry at how I’m ‘failing’ in one area. Other days, I feel more on top of things and much better able to cope. On those days, I usually get up an hour before the children, get myself ready & then empty dishwasher, and hang out washing I’d put in the machine the night before (or put in the drier if weather is bad), and then put another load on. This system helps me stay on top of the laundry although putting it away is a nightmare - I usually try & do the children’s’ clothes whilst they’re in the bath with DH watching them.

I always pack nursery bags the night before. When I notice DC is getting too big for an item of clothing I put it in a bag in the utility once they take it off at bedtime. When the bag is full, I wash it & take it to the charity shop. Similarly, if it’s damaged, I either bag it for recycling or bin it. I used to be sentimental about holding onto things in case of another baby or to pass to a friend but I can’t bear clutter and this system helps me feel more in control & therefore calm.

We don’t have a playroom but have a storage system for toys & there’s a place for everything. DH and I tidy away every evening whilst the other one cooks. DH and I have a shared calendar so that we know who is doing pick up/drop offs, if there’s an evening one of us will be back from work late etc.

Like you, batch cook and meal plan - usually in the evenings or at weekends, get the occasional recipe box too to save time.

Most evenings I don’t sit down and relax, I’m always doing something (online food shop / shopping for birthday presents / organising family calendar etc.) and whilst it’s exhausting, being organised stops me from getting overwhelmed, so it’s actually beneficial for me.

Having said all the above, we don’t have after school activities yet and that’s a whole other level of organisation.

I think overall, it’s extremely hard, and you are definitely not alone. I have in some ways accepted this is how it’s going to be for a few years, and I’m hoping things will get easier as they get older (not likely I’m sure, but can live in denial for now!)

What’s your point? She didn’t say she is surprised, she said it’s hard. Things can be both hard and still the right decision and foresight doesn’t mean we don’t deserve support or advice

Having three kids is very different to having one kid! Was everything hunky dory when you decided to have the second, and the third? If you’re struggling to cope can you afford to give up work or are you reliant on two incomes now?

Your jobs sound similar to ours, and yes our salaries do allow our children nice holidays and for them to have everything material that they need. But I can’t help thinking would they actually rather I was there to pick them up from school or could volunteer for a school trip

I do think that children, on the whole, would prefer time with their parents over nice holidays and material things. Although it might not feel like it at the time, when they want all the latest things! The problem is, these days, that some families need both parents to work just to get the basics paid for. But sometimes both parents work to afford a bigger house, big holidays, all the latest tech etc. Of course, sometimes both work because neither wants to sacrifice a career, or they love their job. They may want to do this, but the drawback is less time with the children, and less time to sort the house/admin/activities etc.

Each family must decide what is best for them, and how much income they need to cover the costs of the things they need/want. And if it's worth the sacrifices they must make to do this. It is difficult, and there is a lot of pressure these days for both parents to work. No-one gets to have it all, unfortunately. Something, in most cases, has to give.

take a weekend to have a massive clear out & then just try and maintain the house stuff. Make a weekly plan for chores & cut back the kid’s activities

@Yellowlegobrick your cooking sounds amazing. Can you elaborate a bit on what you cook and how you cook four meals at the same time? I'm applauding your efficiency 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

There is lots of good advice and hacks on the lone parent webpage.
It's a balance between accepting that when WFH the house will be messy and just relaxing into the chaos. I am not good at this. I find myself getting pissed at my job for taking my time when in fact it should be working of course. I am less resentful when I go in.
I don't have the luxury of cleaners because I can't afford it and it is not easy but I have a policy of do it straight away and stay on top of it with cleaning. I clean the toilet after I clean my teeth , clean the bath and shower after using. That way you can stay afloat. My child doesn't see her father so I don't get a break. I'm not being funny but honestly have a look at the lone parent chat because there are threads there on how to make it work.

What’s your routine like? I found that until I established a routine for myself, I was drowning. I had to sit down and plan out the entire day from wake up to bedtime (mine, not the kids!) before I could get myself together.
I stuck to the routine for a while, and I mean religiously, then started to relax off a bit and managed to keep on top of stuff in a more relaxed kind of way.
My kids do some short days and some long days at school/nursery, and a couple of clubs per week. I planned each day. It was hard and boring and I had to force myself to stick to it, the first weeks were miserable but it really has helped me find little slots of time throughout the day that work best for me.

A lot of good ideas here, especially in relation to clubs!

Following as this is so similar to our situation

yes our salaries do allow our children nice holidays and for them to have everything material that they need. But I can’t help thinking would they actually rather I was there to pick them up from school or could volunteer for a school trip.

Apparently research shows what children want most is to spend time with their parents. I'm not meaning to guilt trip you - everyone needs to do what's best for their family. For some that means work more and afford more things. For us it means I work PT and spend a lot of time with DC but we don't have a fancy house or fancy holidays. (SIL for example works FT, they have a much bigger house but she sees her DC a lot less than I do mine). I have a friend who is very very close to her teenage DC - she says she thinks it's because she invested in the relationship with them when they were little and it's now paying off. That's what I'm aiming for - PT now, lots of time with DC (and live in a more basic way in a flat); increase my hours in a few years....

also: lowering your standards as per PP is definitely great advice. I read somewhere 'cleaning your house while the kids are growing is like shovelling snow when it's still snowing' - couldn't agree more!