That two parents working doesn’t work

I can’t help thinking would they actually rather I was there to pick them up from school or could volunteer for a school trip.

Could you manage financially for a few years if one of you took a career break?

YANBU. It is not possible to be both a great mum and a great employee with young children. Possible exception is if you have a fabulous full time live in nanny plus a cleaner several times a week.

But, kids grow up fast and if you take a ‘career break’ then no matter how senior you were when you had kids, everyone will expect you to be grateful for a basic entry level admin job when you try to come back to work in your forties.

Ugh it’s all so depressing I don’t know what the answer is other than that employers need to find a way to let women return at the same level as they left the workplace at.

Yep.

It just interests me how some people think 2 parents working is impossible but a lone parent is expected to do it plus do all housework and childcare alone and if they don't work and claim benefits they are "lazy."

I think it's incredible in 2023, women are still being told that they must be stay at home, that they must want to be with their children 24/7 and that their children will be somewhat damaged if they have parents that work and they are in childcare. That they shouldn't have had children if they wanted to work as well.

No one ever has these conversations with men. Most people have no idea how they will take to parenthood and for me it was the darkest time in my life. I was hospitalized with post natal depression and was told by many health professional going back to work would be good for me. We all experience motherhood differently and there is no right or wrong way. It works best for each individual but I resent being told that because I work full time, I must love my son less or be a worse mother for it.

For experience my mum stayed at home and went back full time when I was 10. I absolutely loved having the house to myself as a teenager and letting myself in from school. I'd have felt absolutely suffocated as a teenager with my mum there all the time and always felt proud when she went back to work and felt family life much improved when she did.

My cousin who's mum worked full time from when she was 3 months old both have an incredibly close relationship and she didn't suffer at all from being in childcare at a young age.

But if we do have jobs we “farm out” or children. We can’t win.

I do find it insulting when people who have the luxury of not having to earn money judge me for having to earn money to support my child, yes, and I’m quite happy to own that. I don’t think it’s thin skinned to point out that someone is talking sanctimonious, hypocritical and ill informed rubbish.

Do you have a problem with that?

Why would I? I have an adorable child who is the light of my life. I have a number if interests I pursue and have time for too.

Very interesting information in both of these posts. I think we’d do well to ponder these points and try to figure out something that makes sense as a parent. Because…I can see the validity in the arguments on all sides. It’s a dilemma.

These threads always interest me as a lone parent. We get called "lazy" if we don't have jobs.

So because someone has a different point of view, you’re “insulted”. Really? Are you that thin skinned?

I deliberately looked to compressed hours rather than reduced hours as all the women at my work who worked “part time” still seemed to have a full time work load.

I don’t understand threads where posters just deduct the child care from one parent’s wage and say “what’s the point in me working for X amount”. Why not deduct it from the household income or the other parent’s wage? If the other parent was getting a pay rise worth (say) £5k after tax, would that seem like nothing? My friend did a vocational degree where work experience had to start within a couple of years of graduating to keep it updated. She didn’t (DCs were born during her degree) and now can only get “assistant” positions in related roles. She’s divorced and her twat of an ex has zero appreciation of the compromises she made - finances are tough and being a massive arse he resents giving her (the DCs) “his money” in maintenance.

I managed shifts when husband is not working. Tired, not much social life and I love going out with the family anyway. This is how we do it. I honestly do not care what people think how much social life we have. It is up to us to do what we can do when we can do it. Budget, free time, car allowances, etc

Out of interest, do men need to ‘stop having it all’ too? Or is it just women? Should the men who choose their ‘fancy careers’ over being with their baby (as they have done since fancy careers existed) not have bothered having the baby?
I remember a male friend of ours coming over after they had a little boy. Before his son: go- getter out to take over the world, afterwards we were laughing at how he literally tried to do as few hours as possible so he could get home to his family. My db was similar- after having kids he worked hard to find a work life balance and still try to have a decent career but he said he gave up trying to get higher because he said in the end his mind was more devoted to getting home to his wife and children. I think you’ll find there’s a lot of men who have done a full about turn on wanting to have it all

Change your definition of what's a success and failure. You're keeping 3 kids alive and holding down a career - quodos to you, that's a success! You do enough housework to keep it sanity - good job! You cook mostly - well done! You're succeeding not failing. If anyone else doesn't see it, that's their hang up, not yours. So your standards have had to drop and you have lost your me-time but it's not forever. It gets easier as they get older. Working mum of 4. Youngest 1yr. Brainless spaniel. My house becomes a bit of a pit but we're pretty good at 'panic cleaning' when we have visitors - that'll have to do for now

YANBU, I found it very difficult and we only had 2. The only thing I can say is it does get easier, but it’s hell
when you’re going through it. Tbh I don’t think I would do it again unless I wasn’t working, it’s just too stressful.

I have come to the conclusion that the only way two parents can work in high pressures roles is if they have family support!

Yeah, I fully agree with the title. There's is just a lot going into running a home and family. And I think the first few years are so crucial for a kid to be able to rest and play and not be rushed out of bed to go to school every single day.
Apart from all the practical like you mentioned, (laundry cooking cleaning bla bla) is also the emotional side of being available, not just for your kids, but for your husband /wife.
Because in reality job and house takes precedence over a spouse. We usually cancel (or are just plain too tired) for check in chats, movie nights, intimacy etc with our spouses after everything else is done.
I read once when I was younger that the best gift a parent can give their children is to love their other parent.
And we just don't have the time to pour into full time work, kids, homes and our marriages.

And I just roll my eyes at 'husband needs to do more'.
It doesn't take away the fact that it's too much. There needs to be time to relax and just be and there never is with 2 full time parents.
Imhhhhho when kids are young, work very reduced hours or none at all. That would be the ideal. Is the stress worth the financial gain? Is the developmental early crucial years that your kids miss out on worth the holiday in tenerife.
Is the break down of the marriage worth a career?
And heck I'm not discounting that economic times are hard and someone people won't survive on one (low) income.
I'm just saying practically and theoretically I don't believe we can pour into our households, kids and spouses like we should with 2 working parents. It's not possible. Something is always on the back burner.
Am I saying its economically easy for 1 parent to stay home? No, but it sure as hell would work better for family life. Oh how I wish average salaries were still big enough to support a family. Sadly it isn't.

OP I relate, I have 3.5 year old twins and work 4 (long, busy!) days and until their 30 free hours kicked in I had them on my days off; nothing got done, it was just the bare minimum all the time. I was constantly exhausted.

The change I made was when the 30 hours kicked in we could afford an extra day at nursery and I put them in on my non-working day. To say it’s changed my life isn’t an understatement! I spend half the day doing the big shop, batch cooking, tidying; I have time for the extra jobs too like sorting the kids clothes to get rid of stuff too small, get a load of things on Vinted etc etc - I have even gotten in to the gym again and spend an hour there. I go and pick them up early with DH and we all go for a tea-time family swim together before going home for bedtime.

Once your youngest gets those extra hours or when middle child goes to school and releases some £ maybe, I would 100% recommend it. Without sounding like a twat I actually think I’m a better mum to my kids for it.

@ladyvivienne your post is grossly ignorant and insulting to me.

I’m a lone parent who has no choice but to work full time. There is literally no one else who can earn the money my 12 year old daughter needs. How dare you say I “farm her out?” Who the hell are you to judge me for doing what I need to do to support her?

My daughter has asthma and has been hospitalised multiple times a year since she was a toddler because of this. Every year I spend several nights in a row with her, in hospital supporting her, holding her hand, helping keep her spirits up while she is pumped full of steroids and nebulised. I spend weeks not getting a good nights sleep because she keeps me awake coughing. I do this. Not a childminder or a nanny. Because no matter who looks after her while I work I am her mother and I am the person on whom she depends.

I’m the person who helps her with her homework and who counsels her when she has problems with her friends or struggles with school. I’m the person who feeds her and buys her clothes and arranges her play dates and takes her on holidays and washes and irons her school uniform and plays games with her.

But I also go out to work (and work from home when I can) to provide her the best in life and yes I use childminders because without them I couldn’t work. Because I am her mother and I need to support her.

So please take the filth about “farming out” out of your mouth.

And I definitely raised my DC
Disgraceful when people trot out all that dated sexist crap

I think it doesn't work now. But in 4 years time, it'll be totally fine (unless like me you decide to have another).

Stop taking all the mental load
Get cleaner in more often
Try your best every day but at the end of the day accept that you have done all you can for that day and let it go
It does get easier as they get older
3 DC is a lot

Out of interest, do men need to ‘stop having it all’ too? Or is it just women? Should the men who choose their ‘fancy careers’ over being with their baby (as they have done since fancy careers existed) not have bothered having the baby?

OP, first it sounds like you (and I mean you, DH and DC on age-appropriate level) need a good decluttering. Pack away most of kids toys and rotate. Find a place for everything and never put things down, put them away.
Then simplify. Nursery drawings? Take a photo if you must, but then bin. Party bag junk? Bin. Magazines? Cancel subscriptions, read online.
DH needs to take either school or nursery - you will unsubscribe from one of the mailing lists and give his number as the primary one. Make it clear that you will not read any emails or messagesm he will have to.
Kids's activities - prioritise. The 4yo really doesn't need organised activities and 1yo certainly not.

It's hard work for sure but it's possible to manage.

You can get 'after school' nannies or nannies that work part time - take a look at Koru Kids as an example - they have good marketing but there are also other similar services elsewhere