That two parents working doesn’t work

No - you are making sweeping statements that when there is a SAHM, it's an unfair imbalance in a relationship. I'm telling you this is bollocks.

You are literally inserting yourself into posts to a woman who’s husband literally isn’t an active parent, largely because he doesn’t have to be because she is a sahm. Stop butting in and then being like ‘wahhhhh why would that be the case’. 🙄

We get it, you chose to have 4 kids and you don’t seem to be happy about it so you’ve got a massive chip on your shoulder about how no one understands and no one could possibly comment. Cool. Enjoy that.

@BeachBlondey My old Mum (RIP), used to say that women got totally fucked over by women's lib. All of a sudden, women were expected to bring in a wage and look after the family, whereas before, it was fine and acceptable for women to look after the children and the home, and the men provided the money. Not a popular opinion these days, but I can totally see where she was coming from.

They really really aren’t though. No one else has anything to do with the dynamic inside your home. If your husband expects you to bring in a wage and look after the family on your own that’s because he’s a lazy, sexist and let’s face it, asshole.

Sissynova - why would having a SAHP necessarily mean the other parent is not 'an active parent' though? There are different ways to be 'an active parent'.

I think there are a lot of mums here with just one child, or possibly two children (but neither them or the DH have massively high-impact jobs) and they just don't get it.

Try having 3 or 4 kids, Try having one doing 11 plus, one doing GCSEs, one doing A-levels amid all the other teen dramas and god knows what else. It only gets more complicated as they get older! And that's without health issues, MH issues, SEN, disabilities, social media, exams, bullying, identity issues - life is hard for teens today, it really is. It's one thing when you have one child and a job. Doable for sure. But when you have to split yourself between several or more kids and a job, it's exhausting. Exhausting for mums and for dads, but usually more for mums because, like it or not, women tend to be more attuned and to 'carry' it all and they feel the guilt more. Guilt in itself is exhausting. Just give these mums a break. Come back when you've had three kids and they're all adults and and you've gone through it all and then proclaim how easy it all was.

My old Mum (RIP), used to say that women got totally fucked over by women's lib. All of a sudden, women were expected to bring in a wage and look after the family, whereas before, it was fine and acceptable for women to look after the children and the home, and the men provided the money. Not a popular opinion these days, but I can totally see where she was coming from.

Women were told ....."You can have it all".... whereas, the reality is women feeling less than if they don't juggle a high flying career and the home and the children. Women everywhere are fucking burnt out, because it's not realistic to keep a thousand plates spinning 7 days a week, 365 days a year. Where is the joy? When are you meant to relax?

On a practical note, I would suggest cutting your hours at work. Buy in help, if you can (gardener, cleaner etc). Reduce the after school activities. Buy large shelves, with baskets for categories of toys. I got 2 units from Ikea that were lovely, with 10 huge baskets. Each basket had a category, such as, barbie dolls, cars, board games etc. Now my children are grown we still use them for hats and scarves and books - they look lovely.

@Grumpyfroghats Sadly I can’t ask my mum but I know she was home some of the time as unemployed after a house move for my dad’s job, and she studied for an MA when we were quite small so put us in nursery for that; but really I have no solid day to day memories before school, does anyone? The memories are for parents but my dad says, “We had three under five, I wasn’t forming memories, it’s a blur”. I mostly remember nursery and home, all mixed up together, always home for tea after nursery, both parents always seemed around though I know they weren’t! Our neglected latchkey years came later

I read the OP as being miserable because she wants to work and is finding that hard not because she actively wants to give up work.

Again you love to twist comments and rant before reading properly. I didn’t say a sahm was selfish, I said a sahm at the expense of the other parent seeing their children for the vast majority of the week is selfish.

Rant all you want but I think it is. I’ve no idea why some people place a the set up of one SAHP and one absent parent on a pedestal. I think it is much more beneficial to have to active parents.

Absolutely a miserable sahm would be worse! An nct friend cut her mat leave short to return to her big job - fair enough. That’s why value judgements are so unhelpful this is a very personal decision. Op has said she’s miserable not a judgement on others who love working with 3 young kids.

Is the research clear? Because it also shows that girls with working mothers are not only more likely to be working mothers themselves but they are also more likely to have senior roles and higher salaries than girls who have SAHM’s as children.

It also shows that boys of working mothers are more likely to grow up to do things around the house such as cleaning.

All positives to me.

@pointythings

What offends me is this sneering contempt from people who say that if we can't be SAHMs and need to work.for our own wellbeing, we are second rate mums who shouldn't have children at all and oh, we are probably crap at our jobs too. I wouldn't dream of saying SAHMs lack ambition, are lazy etc. so why the vitriol? It's horses for courses and we all want to raise good and decent young people, whether or not we work.

Thank you. The level of spite and judgement on this thread directed at working mums has chilled me and I’m a veteran of these boards.

Genuinely, frighteningly nasty. And people throwing around some really offensive comments about “farming out” and then not having the balls to resurface and explain themselves wheb called on it.

We're specifically talking about early years here.

No we are not, you specifically mentioned early years in one sentence, but then also talked about working school hours, so can't be that early years. UK has 12 months of maternity leave, after that I do not see that many things only mum can do.

@SouthLondonMum22 this! Different people have different needs and abilities. What offends me is this sneering contempt from people who say that if we can't be SAHMs and need to work.for our own wellbeing, we are second rate mums who shouldn't have children at all and oh, we are probably crap at our jobs too. I wouldn't dream of saying SAHMs lack ambition, are lazy etc. so why the vitriol? It's horses for courses and we all want to raise good and decent young people, whether or not we work.

That's life. But it doesn't mean that research isn't clear

indeed. There is abundant evidence that children in lower income households do less well than their peers on a range of developmental outcomes, including in health and education. So therefore it is not in my DC's interest that I quit my job and cut family income by 2/3. I am not convinced being able to volunteer for school bake sale quite makes up for it.

We're specifically talking about early years here.

That will depend on the individual parent.

I’d be absolutely miserable as a SAHM which wouldn’t benefit the child at all.

@bussteward - my mum worked full time.

For a couple of years, we lived abroad because my dad got a transfer there. I asked her recently what job she did there as I realised that I didn't remember. She said "oh for work visa reasons, I was a SAHM for those years" - I had completely forgotten that/it just didn't make any impact on me..

But women have 12 months maternity leave. It isn’t biologically necessary for women to stay at home for years simply because they gave birth and some may breastfeed.

Word! All this talk of seeing them grow up and making memories and stuff when actually the daily mothering of children is a drudge. I’m currently on maternity leave and it’s just Groundhog Day of feed the baby, breakfast for everyone, school run, put the baby down for a nap and spend that time clearing up breakfast stuff (that fucking Ikea Antilop high chair tray!), prepping snack and lunch and sticking a wash on or putting laundry away or unpacking a food shop, then baby up and to a class or swings for barely any time at all because back for lunch then nap then clearing up lunch then up for snack and clearing up snack and on and on and on. Wiping bibs and hanging them up to dry over and over again. He’s a very jolly baby but it’s not magical. It’s labour. I respect SAHMs for doing the drudge day after day but I don’t respect this idea that SAHMs are on some higher plane of ideal motherhood that’s all magic, while working mothers make zero memories with their children.

I’m currently reading Momfluenced and it’s really good on examining the “precious memories” aspect of motherhood and how a lot of it is for parents, not children, who are the centre of their own lives and have a warped sense of time: DD still talks about the “amazing summer” she spent at someone’s house “going for the walk every day and always ice creams and all summer we did this and that”. It was one weekend!

To bring this back to the OP, I’m one of three kids and we didn’t do swimming til the youngest was five. Then it was intensive lessons and a once a week family swim when we were five, seven and nine. Before that it was survival. Activities didn’t really kick in till secondary school when we could walk ourselves to and from choir/drama/football/whatever. Weekends were the car wash, the big shop, B&Q, family life: children fitting in with what the family needed, not parents working around the kids’ schedule. Library was once a fortnight.

Attaching a page from Momfluenced about giving into the mess. When even Marie Kondo admits she’s given up on tidiness with three kids, what hope the rest of us?

Why don't you give birth and then go back to work after 3 days

people here are talking about staying home with 9-10yo or even teenagers. Pretty sure most mums have healed from birth by that time and no longer breastfeed.

I am more exhausted by my day with the kids than my working days 😄

I know men like that too - my OH is one of them! I was challenging this posters view that women needed to change their career expectations or not have children, with no mention of men needing to do the same thing.

@Sissynova - "In the real world most working parents are not out from 7- 8/9pm. They pick their kids up between 5-6, they spend time with them every night, they make them dinner, they bath them, they put them to bed and they get up and see them again the next morning. And I say they because it is they, both parents are an active and engaged in their children’s lives."

That does not need to be "reality" though does it? It's not the law! Why are you so threatened about the idea of a SAHM?

Every family has its breaking point and it's up to them. None if your business. Calling people 'selfish' to stay home to focus on their kids is beyond ridiculous. Come on. What's it to you? And why are you presuming to speak on behalf of their husbands ffs? Bizarre. Let them decide with their wives how they want to manage THEIR family life. This is all sounding deranged.

I have two children and me and husband both work full time. It's bloody hard. We kinda have a routine. Saturday I change all beds and stick them in wash, sun husband does quick clean of house. In the week afyer work or sometimes before I'll run around with the hoover.
As for art work. I keep it to one side for a week then chuck any rubbish I don't want. I only keep xmas mothers fathers day stuff easter etc. Rest in bin. Clothes, again of they don't fit, stick in a black bag and once full take it to the clothes bin. I used yo try and sell them but it was mote hassle than it was worth.
Kitchen gets a quick clean before work. Before bed, everything is either washed up or stuck on dishwasher ( trying to cut down due to costs). So kitchen is breakfast stuff washed and a quick once over.
They only have swimming Sunday. Both are autistic so they don't really like clubs so much
Eldest has tutoring once a week but we slot it on depending on what the other parent is doing . I think wft you have to accept that nothing will go yo plan all the time and your house won't be a show home

It is beneficial to children here though. Having a strung out exhausted mum you don’t see much isn’t great is it? We can’t all live our lives to make strangers feel better or to uphold other peoples worthy feminist principles.