That two parents working doesn’t work

With kids of this age and all the afternoon activities to do, I would look for a nanny (at least for 2-3 days a week, you could do a nanny-nursery split for the youngest so they still get some nursery time).

I know you say it would take most of your take-home pay, but I'd view it as a short-term investment in your career and your sanity. They could do some of the school runs, take some of the after-school activities off your shoulders, get the kids fed and do some tidying-up of toys and kids stuff for you after they've finished playing. And there would presumably be some savings in terms of dropping some afterschool childcare and your older ones might get more time in their own home.

DH and I used to have your arrangement but with 2 kids not 3 and our kids were a bit older when I went to 4 days from 3. My advice to you is outsource as much as possible: cleaning, gardening and DIY definitely, maybe even washing and ironing too. Then your free time can be spent on doing nice things. Don’t sweat the small stuff - who cares if your house is full of crap? It doesn’t matter if it’s a happy house. And it does get easier year by year.

You poor thing, but the world is lucky to have people like you.

Where I work the people who do loads of overtime are generally incompetent. I do approx the hours that I am contracted for (37.5) also.

I have an absolutely lovely lifestyle and work 35h a week 🤷‍♀️ misses point of thread

Yes, the whole 50 hour focus the thread seems to have taken is quite mystifying.

Lmfao @bussteward.

Barely anyone is expected to work 50
hours as standard in the uk either. The average full time worker in the UK works 36.4 hours.

Wow @bussteward that's some chip on your shoulder!

It’s part of the Mumsnet posturing I think: I’m on £400k but feeling pretty stretched with COL, might have to downsize to only one live-in nanny, but two is really a must-have when you work 16-hour days as all captains of industry must, I’m C-suite Big Four but tbh isn’t everyone who wants basic lifestyle amenities like a side return extension and bifolds, not that I’m home to see them because my special work, not to mention literally the global economy, would collapse without me as I’m senior. Shrug, it’s just how it is in Genovia.

I think most people get that some jobs require 50 hours a week, or sometimes much more. It's just that some posters have very much over egged the number of jobs this entails as well as come up with some fairly, erm, esoteric definitions of what constitutes a good life and how it can be attained.

This sounds similar to many industries in the UK though. In many here the expected hours are much longer than that, especially in the professions.

I think the main difference I have observed is that in many other European countries there is a sense of collective responsibility. There is none of this sense of "claim what you are entitled to and do the minimum hours you can get away with". People would feel shame. It is in the non-professional jobs that the difference is most stark. People don't think they have a right to work 16 hours per week and have everyone else fund the rest of their living costs.

None of which relates to my post about the general working population in Sweden, especially as 'most' and 'well paid' are vague terms.

So you're actually only talking about a particular segment of society, then. Which makes me think I'm right, they're not all expected to work 50 hours a week as standard in Sweden.

Most well paid jobs across Europe are over 50 hours a week. The remaining 10 hours are often just cultural or expected. But let me tell you, even in France you can’t expect to earn 100k+ without putting in the hours. People on MN tend to have low level experience in the job market (where they have any experience at all) and so don’t know what it’s like at a more senior level.

I lived in Denmark and my ex husband worked there. They are meticulous about number of hours worked. It’s part of the law of Jente and their society uses guilt as very effective tool to ensure equal participation in the workplace of 37.5 hours per week, unless you are managing in which case it’s over 40
hours a week.

My experience was that Danish leadership was not very effective when working less than 45 hours a week. It’s very important to attend the dinners, travel to clients and offices so you can manage effectively. My ex husband left the house at 6am and was back home at 10pm or later. He was paid very well for it. When located in Denmark and working during covid he worked 7am to 10pm Monday through Thursday and 7am to 6pm on Friday. He would take calls after that and he worked 8 hours or so over the weekend.

Quite a lot less than 50 hours on average then, if accurate. Though I have my doubts about the universality of what you say about Denmark here, given that they can't all work in jobs that can be done remotely.

@StormShadow At junior and mid level they are expected to work a minimum of 37.5 hours per week and in management 40-50 hours per week is expected.

In Denmark the working day for women was generally, drop child off at bornehave (daycare) at 8am, go to work arriving at 8:30am. Leave work at 2:30pm to pick child up at 3pm. Go home, do evening routine and log back in 8-10pm. Rinse and repeat. That’s an 8 hour day, so 40 hours a week.

Bet they're not all expected to work 50 hours a week as standard though...

It is challenging, I don't think anyone makes out it's easy though? For us we just had one child and I work shifts (some nights shifts) and DH works standard office hours and it works well for us. Covering illness is manageable between us both, holidays can be more challenging but thankfully we can afford holiday clubs normally if needed. I don't think there's a magic solution.

I do not know anyone who works more than 40 hours a week. It's not necessary in most jobs. No way would I work 50 hours a week. I'd rather have less money than do that.

In Sweden housewives / stay at home mothers are looked on as leaches and drains to the system to the point where they are often excluded. Cheap childcare and extended / flexible maternity leave has resulted in both parents being expected to work.

@StormShadow Two parents working 50 hours a week would not constitute a nice lifestyle to DH and I. Quite the opposite, actually. If we had to make financial sacrifices to avoid doing that, we would.

Agree! It’s barely conducive to a balanced family life when it’s one parent but no way in hell it’s a nice family lifestyle when both parents are working longer weeks.

open your eyes, we aren’t competing against Europe. The competition is from rest of the world and they are all working a lot harder and are smarter on average than the average Brit or European.

Good grief! You sound like an advert for the UK government!

You can dedicate your life, or at least 50 hours a week of it, to "the cause" if you like. You can be a cog in the wheel, striving to work harder, increase the nations GDP, and have your intelligence judged on the basis of your mathematical prowess for the glory of England if you want.

Fuck that shit!

Two parents working 50 hours a week would not constitute a nice lifestyle to DH and I. Quite the opposite, actually. If we had to make financial sacrifices to avoid doing that, we would.

And even if you want to define that as purely something financial, there are still two big holes to be picked in it. The first is that when people have DC, the childcare costs mean they aren't necessarily getting more money by working more. And the second is that plenty of us are able to afford a nice lifestyle in the financial sense without anyone having to do a 50 hour week. We don't do much more than that between us.

The thread isn’t about lovely lifestyles? I wouldn’t in any case agree that working 50 hours is a lovely lifestyle. It’s “how do you balance work and all the stuff”. Your answer appears to be to work even more.

So you make your choices but then don’t expect a nice lifestyle. You can’t have it both ways.