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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Was the

238 replies

WantToBeAMamma · 06/07/2023 16:48

AIBU to be upset that my daughters teacher took off 5 marks from her exam total because she doodled on the back of the paper while waiting to be allowed to leave the exam. She would have got 96% without the deduction. See attached the offending doodle. Teachers comment was "minus 5 marks for graffiti at the back. I have told you many times its not on."

Was the
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WantToBeAMamma · 07/07/2023 20:30

Letting her know that she scored 96% was a statement of fact. But didn't in any way share a positive feeling such as appreciation recognition or validation, in contrast to what she said about the drawing where she labelled it "graffiti" and was explicit in saying 'its not OK".

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cardibach · 07/07/2023 18:22

WantToBeAMamma · 07/07/2023 10:34

Of course I'm not out to undermine the teachers authority and always encourage my children to respect all school staff . I think any one who teaches in this day and age with the level of respect in classrooms are very brave and commendable. My main gripe is that there was no positive comment on the exam paper even though she achieved a high mark after much revision. I feel that besides the reprimand it could have been balanced out with some positivity, to encourage her to continue putting effort in when revising.

She did balance it out with positivity. She told her she scored 96% in the exam.

cardibach · 07/07/2023 18:06

WantToBeAMamma · 06/07/2023 21:54

I'm so happy to hear that there are others out there who can relate.

My daughter says that when she doodles in class it helps her focus and better absorb the material being taught. but I appreciate that not all teachers are able to accommodate this and may see it as inappropriate behaviour. I am very greatful for all the querky teachers who were able to see past this and turn a blind eye over the years and appreciate my daughter for all her other qualities.

Of course I believe in kids respecting their teachers/elders

Doodling in class in her own book brought in for the purpose or on scrap paper wouldn’t bother me. On exams though it risks issues and suggests a lack of care. Especially if she’s been told (and getting almost full marks doesn’t mean she must care. Following instructions in a formal situation is important).

NotOnYourNellies · 07/07/2023 18:02

Be upset at your daughter
She was told - end of
Shoulder it all on her
The apple hasn't fallen far from the tree has it

cardibach · 07/07/2023 17:54

Conkersinautumn · 06/07/2023 19:40

That flies in the face of all of the positive mark exam methods im aware of. The teacher sounds petty and vindictive

It doesn’t, because she marked it positively and the child knows the actual mark. Then she took marks off for breaking a rule she was fully aware of.

cardibach · 07/07/2023 17:47

Mischance · 06/07/2023 19:15

I am with your DD. The exam is to show what she knows - she knows 96% of the syllabus, so that is her mark. It was on the back of the paper FGS. There are some teachers who love a power trip! [but lots who don't, before I get dumped on!!]

And she still knows enough to get 96%. Why so concerned about the mark?how is it a power trip? It is a nothing consequence aimed to wake the child up. As a GCSE marker has said on the thread already - scripts with ‘doodles’ get referred to team leaders/senior markers for review. Too much of a risk. If I meaningless penalay now stops that happening, that’s in the child’s interests.

WantToBeAMamma · 07/07/2023 14:15

How old are you thinking?

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OLDERME · 07/07/2023 11:02

Well, she seems to have 'learned' that lesson. So well done for re-inforcing the rule. Guess you can let it go now.😀

WantToBeAMamma · 07/07/2023 10:34

Of course I'm not out to undermine the teachers authority and always encourage my children to respect all school staff . I think any one who teaches in this day and age with the level of respect in classrooms are very brave and commendable. My main gripe is that there was no positive comment on the exam paper even though she achieved a high mark after much revision. I feel that besides the reprimand it could have been balanced out with some positivity, to encourage her to continue putting effort in when revising.

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MermaidEyes · 07/07/2023 10:16

Still curious to know how old daughter is. Notice OP hasn't actually ever said.

TheWalrusdidbeseech · 07/07/2023 10:08

WantToBeAMamma · 07/07/2023 00:49

She's really not that arty OP.

Please share your qualification to make this judgement as her art teacher seems to be of a different opinion.

no need to fret, just good luck with that Turner Prize.

Spinet · 07/07/2023 09:35

OP my daughter uses sketching as a way to self-regulate. She's allowed to do it in class because it's a need identified by an ed psych. She is on the list to have a diagnosis of ASD and while I'm not saying that's what your daughter has, if drawing is something that helps her deal with the stress of exams it might be worth putting something more formal in place.

Otherwise I can't get heated either way. The teacher is wasting energy by focusing on it imo but she is learning to deal with grumpy teachers/people and work to a brief. I wish the world did bend around individual personality/need but alas it doesn't.

Deathbyfluffy · 07/07/2023 08:05

WantToBeAMamma · 06/07/2023 18:13

Because in this day and age where kids get up to all sorts this hardly seems like the worse crime to do. She clearly has worked hard to get a good result and shouldn't be punished for being arty.

She needs to learn where being ‘arty’ is appropriate, though.
She clearly has a problem with authority if she keeps doing it despite being asked not to, so punishment seems reasonable to try and get the message to sink in IMO

ThickSkinnedSoWhat · 07/07/2023 08:01

WantToBeAMamma · 07/07/2023 00:49

She's really not that arty OP.

Please share your qualification to make this judgement as her art teacher seems to be of a different opinion.

Yes, because an art teacher holds all the power in that judgement. My art teacher told me my drawing of a pig was lovely... it was a giraffe Hmm

HerMammy · 07/07/2023 05:59

as in the past she had been told not to draw in her excersize books for various different reasons but had never been reprimanded for defacing an exam paper so thought it would be OK.
I'm sorry but if she's old enough to be sitting an exam, then she's old enough to have basic common sense. 🤷🏼‍♀️🤷🏼‍♀️

ChekhovsMum · 07/07/2023 02:53

I’m a teacher. I have mixed views on this.

On the one hand, your daughter is doodling in her exercise books regularly. That will be making her books look an absolute mess, and her teacher will (unfairly) be held responsible if a member of SLT or Ofsted observe the class and pick up her book. It just doesn’t give the impression of pride in her work. I mean, if she ever gets a job where paperwork is required, is she planning to doodle all over that? Can she prevent herself when it’s really needed? Because it’s really needed in her school books.

On the other hand, I am really not a fan of punishments or behaviour solutions which have nothing to do with the reality of what’s been done, and bear no relation to what would happen in real life. 5% off an exam score is arbitrary, decided by the teacher, and unrelated to the doodle. Your daughter’s learning and performance in the exam got 96%.

Would the explanation at the top of my post change your daughter’s behaviour at all? Would having a piece of scrap paper to doodle on in lessons (maybe even after exams, although that wouldn’t be allowed at GCSE) stop her from drawing on her work, or would she still draw on her work? Can she be made to understand that drawing on your work is a bad idea, so that she’s motivated from within not to do it any more?

If she can’t, then maybe some kind of punishment-consequence is necessary, but again - my ideal teacher would relate it to the thing done. Stay behind at break time to erase/go over with white paint/stick cutout pieces of paper over every doodle to restore your book to its former glory, for example. Not a random 5% off an earned score.

However, with all that said, for your daughter’s sake, please don’t complain to the school about this or defend your daughter in any way. The teacher does and should have a choice to respond to this. I don’t think it’s the best response cognitively, but it’s a response that says ‘I won’t let this pass’, and that’s better than tolerance of something established as wrong.

If you go challenging the teacher over this you really will be ‘that parent’. The exam score isn’t going anywhere official. Instead, back up the point at home by reinforcing the real reasons why your DD should stop the doodling. Aim to find an alternative way of occupying her hands that’s acceptable at school and can pass the time. And when the time is right, find ways to encourage proper drawing and painting at home.,

SheSaidHummingbird · 07/07/2023 02:24

'Greatful' and 'excersize'? You're not an examiner. Go figure.

WantToBeAMamma · 07/07/2023 00:49

She's really not that arty OP.

Please share your qualification to make this judgement as her art teacher seems to be of a different opinion.

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NumberTheory · 07/07/2023 00:07

Gerrataere · 06/07/2023 20:33

It was a test! You don’t even know if this was a specific secondary setting test, there is art class to work on naff drawings. Yes schools can be very constricted, but they also can’t give in to every ‘free spirit’ who feels that they’re not entitled to follow the simplest instructions because they’re ‘artsy’. Should the sporty kids start doing handstands during tests? What about the kid who thinks they’re the next Adele, should the teacher encourage them to howl like a dog in pain instead of doing algebra? Jesus let’s be honest at this point, if you’re going to insist on being ‘spirited’ and ‘screw the rules I’m special’ type person, at least make sure your art is truly worth the attention you want….

Comparing something that would impinge on all the other students to something that none of the other students would notice at all is really pathetic.

If there is good reason to stop someone doodling then the rule is reasonable. but the reason she hasn't been docked in the past and the reason she wouldn't be docked on her GCSEs etc. is because doodling on the back of the exam paper does not harm anyone, isn't an unfair advantage, and doesn't impact the integrity of the test.

Enforcement of rules for the sake of it (and it's not even a proper rule, it's just something the teacher doesn't like her doing) is not a generally good thing. It's just officious.

dontbejealousofmyartisticflair · 06/07/2023 23:52

Yes. I believe a fully functioning education system would follow each individual child’s passion. It might seem airy fairy but great world achievements were all accomplished by people who pushed ahead despite society telling them they were crazy. And sorry but this education system isn’t currently pumping out geniuses left, right and centre is it? So why not consider something different?

I would LOVE to hear your proposal and how that would work in practice and in real life.

dontbejealousofmyartisticflair · 06/07/2023 23:50

Thankfully she has now learnt her lesson and will try and avoid.

if all it took was taking off a few marks, the teachers should have done it years ago.

vipersnest1 · 06/07/2023 23:30

YANBU. As you know, the drawing would just be ignored if it was the final GCSE exam.
FYI, my DC1 drew a picture of a whale on one of the questions in their A level Biology papers. They still passed with a good grade.

lanthanum · 06/07/2023 23:30

I haven't read the whole thread, so maybe someone has already mentioned it, but if anything written/drawn on a GCSE paper is deemed to be "offensive" then they can impose a sanction (eg 0 for that paper). Much safer not to doodle, just in case someone decides that clearly the doodle is a caricature of an invigilator and therefore offensive. (I suspect they only apply sanctions for very obviously offensive material, but who knows.)

WantToBeAMamma · 06/07/2023 23:10

She was a bit upset with herself, as in the past she had been told not to draw in her excersize books for various different reasons but had never been reprimanded for defacing an exam paper so thought it would be OK. Thankfully she has now learnt her lesson and will try and avoid.

Just hoping she didn't draw anything too offensive on the Headmasters exam.😄

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PriamFarrl · 06/07/2023 22:49

The op is the DD and I claim my £5.