To think D of E is a massive swindle

At my school we are charging £195 for bronze. £50 deposit plus £145 for the expedition, and the £145 goes straight to activity provider. The £50 covers the DofE welcome pack/login which is around £24 and then as a school we have to pay £1500 for a licence fee which has to be split between students. We also have to buy some equipment and pay thing like staff petrol costs, lunch and dinner for staff on expedition. We make no money. In fact this time we have lost money as the coach was really expensive to get them there and back and I didn't dare ask for more money so we are having to take the money from existing funds.

We pay the £145 for pupil premium students. We also lend rucksacks and stoves and tents are provided by the AAP. So in theory no barriers. They don't pay towards coach. Quite a few PP students drop out before the expedition which is a shame.

I think it's a lot of responsibility for staff to be honest. Plus they're camping out with the kids.

Wide variety. I think £250 is too much.

Both my children's schools were amazing and did this with staff and cheaper, their dedication was fantastic and the walks really demanding, it was blisters all around, especially for the practice walk! We bought one rucksack between the two of them plus it's already been travelling since so it's been a good investment. Other than that, we borrowed a lot of the stuff and the school had tents and food. No Wayfarer meals, they were given a list of good food ideas and high calorie things to carry plus water bottles, the whole thing was well organized. I would not blame teachers for not carrying this on though with all the pressures of their jobs and stress of the past few years but it was a really special moment when the team leader came back after organizing her last walk (ever), quite a few tears were shed.

I voted YABU because most of what you describe isn't actually a DofE issue. They're down to your chosen provider making decisions.

We provided most camping kit for our students who do DofE. They sorted their own meals on a budget of their choice as long as they're appropriately nutritious and they aren't filling up on pot noodle and junk food. We kept costs down by running it as a volunteer team of staff as enough of us had the appropriate qualifications.

Other schools I know have a private company who run DofE and the costs are very high. That's down to the company though, not DofE.

Our council runs our DofE though the school. It’s the same department that organises school clubs at the leisure centres.
we paid £65 for bronze. They were told thick rubble bags better than bin liners, they provide all the stoves, tents and pans and had a supply of sleeping bags, rucksacks etc if needed.
we do scouts so we have most of the other stuff already.

Do it with the scouts/explorers, I only pay £25 for the expedition DofE gold and they lent kit it people needed it.

I forgot to say - bin bags were fine as rucksack liners. And she didnt need any specific named brand equipment either - just whatever we already had or was available. Nowt fancy or specific.

You can get dry sacks from home bargains, or sometimes the pound shop does them. Basically you need something to keep clothes dry, and a dry bag to store wet clothes.
Sleeping bags, you don't need to spend a fortune, you can get second hand (just wash it before using it😂). You can make a bag warmer by adding a liner, again you can buy secondhand.
Food wayfarer and other brands cheaper off Amazon, pot noodle isn't great, as there is more packaging to carry around, but flapjacks are brilliant for keeping up energy levels.
Camping mat again eBay is your friend.
Similarly first aid kit, eBay or Amazon, home bargains, likely to be cheaper than 'Go outdoors'.
Yes decent waterproofs don't come cheap, but you can pick up unissued army surplus gortex coats and trousers for around £45-60. Might not be stylish but very practical.
Again a good backpack, one with chest and hip straps, can be picked up second hand.
You can always sell it on again....or store it for uni days😀

My dd did Bronze last year. I didnt pay anything like the amount you've been quoted op. We had almost all the equipment already - all dd needed was a new pair of boots. Food wise she took a packet of Bachelors packet pasta (add water, stir, heat, stir, eat!) lots of snacks. I cant quite remember what tbh but none of it was anything special or fancy - I seem to recall I discovered the concept that is a weetabix breakfast to go thing (bottle of milk thats got weetabix in it?) Belvitas mmm not had them before (Im now addicted to them!) She had that for breakfast the following day.
"expedition" wise - that was a total joke - they walked for several hours, easy walking. No adventure or expedition involved. Just a walk lunch walk set up tent.
The only costs I recall on top of the new boots she needed was about £30 that went to DofE? And about £50 for the trip itself.

Im happy my dd got to do Bronze...... I guess. But the certificate she got is awful. Not credible at all (no idea why she got such a crummy certificate). Im hoping that next year she will have the opportunity to do Silver and that Silver will be run better.

Gosh! Our school has an amazing outdoor education facility linked to its cadet force, and all we had to pay for DofE silver was the £70 registration fee, then I think about £30 for each of the two expeditions. Bin liners are fine for rucksacks - and they have lots of equipment such as boots, rucksacks and sleeping bags for anyone who doesn't have their own. Food is provided.

We are obviously very lucky - I'd never thought about how other school manage it, but if you have to hire an external company it's bound to push prices up...

We run all of ours in house- state school- bronze is free, and open to the whole of year 9, then it’s £60ish for silver and gold is nearer £100, depends a little on the uptake year on year.

We have 8 trained assessors and quite a few more supervisors, although very, very few female so that’s sometimes a slight issue.

I suspect as we are getting less good will from leadership we may start to struggle to staff expeditions… but for now it’s exceedingly good value!

It's not about making it easier for people, it's about levelling the field. He didn't need that particular adjustment so he wouldn't have been granted it.

From my DH - DofEswindle The award in general is very worthwhile and I would encourage anyone who’s child showed an interest.
The biggest problem now is that most schools have contracted out the expedition section of the award to (AAP) Approved Activity Providers as they either don’t have the staff willing to volunteer the time or the schools local licensing provider will have strict levels of qualifications required to be able to run the expeditions.
Wayfarer type meals are ok for Bronze but they are heavy and as you have alluded expensive, check out the calorific content of a bag and it becomes even more expensive to get the calories required, they also don’t do much for teamwork or show that you can create a balanced menu.
Rubble bags work perfectly fine as both a rucksack liner and also for putting a roll mat in, if anything make sure the sleeping bag is dry and the inner part of the tent if they have to carry that part, other things although unpleasant if wet aren’t so vital.
I speak from having helped to run a Gold group that specifically did the expedition section for 13 years, we closed due to the licensing provider wanting more and more hoops jumped through each year, 16 of us were all volunteers with no financial reward aside from petrol expenses and accommodation paid for, granted things have got more expensive in the last 10 years but we provided 2 day walks, 3 weekend practice walks and their main expedition for just over £300 in our final year.
Having said all that, a day to the palace if they complete Gold is something they will remember and cherish for many years.

My boy’s just completed his with school at a cost of £125. He survived on gingernuts, jellybabies and pasta, I’m not sure expensive nutritious meals are that important for a 36hr trip?

Rucksack liners completely passed me by.

£250 sounds a lot! Seems very unfair how much it varies by.

The school should explain this really.
I'm guessing there may be travel costs to cover (coach or bus hire) and pitch fees for camping.
The school has to register for DofE too and that's very expensive.
Best to ask and see what they say.

4 days work?

Not much training and preparation going on then.

If an expedition supervisor is paid £160 a day for four days that is already £640.

Are the participants providing all their own kit, including tents, sleeping bags, rucksacks, stoves. If not there are additional costs for the expedition supervisor in providing them. If the superisor is running a business then there will be insurance costs. Travel is not cheap at the moment. It all adds up,

Fancy meal sachets?!
I just remember living on slabs of kendal mint cake when I did mine 😁

We paid £20 to the (state) school and bought a backpack and hiking boots. Tent, compass, maps were provided. Kids brought tortellini for evening meal, easy porridge for breakfast, and a bunch of snacks like jerky, trailmix, granola bars. I thought the teachers went above and beyond so got them Costa gift cards. Definitely didn't exceed £250, wonder where that figure came from.

MIne never did D0fE as she did similar through scouts and when she went to the meeting about it at school she decided that going to Jambouree was preferable to DofE.

My Foster son has a learning disability but not only carried his own kit and a share of joint equipment but also carried stuff for a girl in his group with terrible blisters. He would've wanted to do it if it was made easier for him because of his disability.

This is how we run it. We even provide the hot meal in the evening for free too.

I think our school might of changed it in response to cost as his silver award has been cheaper than the bronze. They have provided the tents stoves etc.

Do you know anyone that might have some of the kit? Our rucksack has done trips for scouts D of E etc not only for my kids but a friend who son and daughter go to a different school.

The kids have had to meal prep themselves and were told for this no rehydration meals type of thing. There are huge pots of pasta being cooked for both dinners and cold for lunch! Lots of snacks we have Chia Charge bars that I use for long distance swimming some emergency Kendal mint cake wrapped chocolate crepes they are individually wrapped and very flat for packing

I paid, and DC did the practice expedition but doesn’t want to continue with the scheme.

School holidays are coming up and DC wants to do some activities that need to be paid for in advance. I’ll was going to explain that I’d usually be fine with it, but don’t want things to go the same way as DofE and waste more money.

Instead, I think I’ll just carry on as if DC hasn’t changed their mind and pack and sort arrangements and then explain as above if they push it.

It’s really annoying because I know there’s a risk that DC will conveniently feel unwell or something if I make them go. If so, will need collecting, which is more hassle. I’m still thinking it over, and might give teachers the heads up if DC ends up going.

Good idea if DC doesn’t go, I’ll deduct full costs from any money they earn and get. Not kidding as I’m so cross they think it’s ok to be so frivolous.

It shouldnt cost more than the campsite and travel plus the salary of the supervisor for four days work.

Fair enough…in that case…

Does anyone really think this was what the late Henry Cecil John Hunt had in mind when he conceived this scheme?

😉