Scared about raising a boy

"I know people think that men have all the power but I also see the ways in which boys and men suffer"

Yes. A better society benefits everyone. And in order to have a better society we need to think about how we raise our boys. And carrying on the way we're doing now obviously isn't working.

I know people think that men have all the power but I also see the ways in which boys and men suffer. For example, boys are more likely to fail at school. Boys are more likely to bottle up their feelings and suffer mental health. Men are more likely to commit suicide.
So yes, I absolutely want to raise my son to treat women with respect and view them as equals. I also want to raise him to succeed at school, to feel he can express his emotions. To be able to seek help if he's suffering from depression etc. My son's very sensitive and fragile in some ways. I don't worry about him growing up to be an abuser. I worry about him not being resilient against life's knocks.

I'm expecting a boy soon and am already prepared to butt heads with many people in my family, because I will be raising him in the exact way I raised my daughter. I don't raise children based on gender conformation, I raise them to be decent, resilient, empathetic human beings.

One of my biggest pet peeves is "boys will be boys" which in my opinion promotes notions of toxic masculinity in young boys, and makes excuses for behaviour that would never be acceptable in girls.

The example boys are being set by family members is also very important, we lead by example. Children learn what they live, and live what they learn. So if they are around toxic masculine figures then that is what they learn.

Just raise your boy as you do your girls, be prepared to tell family members to piss off if they encourage things you don't like.

Life is greater than Mn and most women you speak to don't share this view or experience.

I think this is a bit of an over simplified take on this. More than 90% of violent crime is carried out by males. It's perfectly reasonable for a soon to be parent to have a think about how they can best support a boy to grow up to be a good man, who isn't part of the problem.

Nobody is saying all men are bad.

I think it's a thoughtful and responsible thing to think about how your children may need to be guided into adulthood in the right way for them as individuals, taking into account lots of factors just one of which is their sex.

Yes, bring them up like your girls. See what he needs and respond accordingly.
Don't let anyone dismiss his feelings or expect him to 'man up' when he needs comforting. When children feel validated and have their needs met, they'll grow up more secure and well adjusted.

Take him out every day. Let him run off steam and be active.

Give him chores and learn responsibility.

As you have said you have a line of good male models so why are you afraid? Life is greater than Mn and most women you speak to don't share this view or experience.

Couldn't agree more. The vilest people I have experiences with were women so it's not always men.

@CurlewKate said it better. Thank you. Treating differently is not the same as treating unequally.

In my teens, quite a few of the boys got more pocket money on the assumption that they needed to "treat" the girls. That's treating them unequally.

In our family, at university, all children were given an allowance that covered things like clothes, food, entertainment out etc. Extras had to be paid for ourselves. Basic essentials like sanitary protection were paid for by my parents. Looking back, of course my "basic essentials" cost significantly more than the equivalent for my brother. That was treating us differently, but fairly.

It’s insane that the MN forum would make you think like this. In fact I would say it’s dangerous for how people view others. The vast, vast, vast majority of men are not abusers/alcoholics/drug users/sex worker users/angry violent apes/serial cheaters/axe murderers/whether other labels people care to put all men under on here.

@BoohooWoohoo I think you missed the point of my post completely.

I'm not saying that we should treat girls and boys different so that we can reinforce gender stereotypes. Doh. I'm pointing out that girls and boys ARE different AND that there are differences in what society expects of them and that inevitably this means we have to consider different things for girls than we do for boys if we want them all to arrive in adulthood as sensible, considerate, not-sexist people.

So absolutely, we don't have "blue chores" and "pink chores" in our house. But conversations about consent are different with DS than they are with DD. Similarly, I have to work harder to counteract the messages DD has thrown at her every single day to "be kind" etc. I don't have to focus on that to the same extent with DS.

"Treating your children differently will increase the likelihood of developing a sense of entitlement"

No. Treating your children unequally will do that. Treating them differently is acknowledging their individuality.

I regularly see posts on here where the OP has a sibling who is treated very differently. For example OPs whose ILs treat their daughter's children differently to their son's children or family gatherings where men relax while women work in the kitchen. Treating your children differently will increase the likelihood of developing a sense of entitlement

I think, well they can't all have suffered terrible childhoods surely?

I thin you would be surprised at the amount of shit role models out there for males.

The cycle just repeats.

You'll be sound OP - lots of decent males in your sons life.

I'm always a bit bemused by the "just bring the boys and girls up the same way" argument. It's not like you're bringing them up in a vacuum - there are personal, familial and societal expectations and assumptions whether we like it or not. Plus the stark reality that girls and boys ARE different and will have to navigate different things. So of course you can't bring them up identically.

we actively try to teach girls to be strong, to be aware, to understand they can do anything etc. That's to overcome societal expectations etc.

So we do have to do the same for the boys. Actively teach them how not to use their size/strength/priviledge in a way that disadvantages others. Show them how not to be complacent, how not to make assumptions, how to be gentle etc.

I’m bringing 3 boys and 1 girl up. Their dad isn’t a good example to them and I do worry about how they will turn out because of him. Luckily my dad is an excellent male role model to them and my dad is also very involved in their lives, so I hope the influence my dad brings cancels out everything they see in their dad.

I’m also a single mum and provide a stable happy home for them. I just hope that my own influence can show my boys how to be decent men and to have respect for women.

I do get your worry OP. But I think if they’re brought up right and have the right influences whilst growing up, you’re doing all the things you should be doing to bring up a decent man of the future. Congratulations on your lovely baby boy 💐.

@GivenUpOnOrdinary Have you seen any negative attitudes about men and boys on this thread?

None so deaf as those who don't want to hear.

@MissyB1 "Because part of being a decent person means having an awareness of all those things."

I agree. But it's also important to look at your own place in the world and the expectations and pressures on you. And those are different for men and boys, and women and girls.

Actually Christ YES. Behind every rape is a rape joke repeated a hundred times. Behind every DM incident are a hundred men excusing it with, "bet she deserved it"
That's 'how the patriarchy works' 101.

I did that by raising them to be decent people, decent to girls/ women/ boys /men. They do understand about the challenges that women/ vunerable/ disabled/disadvantaged/ and minorities face. Because part of being a decent person means having an awareness of all those things. I expect parents to teach that awareness to all their kids of both sexes.

My two sons are both young adults now, and l refused to come on this forum until recently because of the attitude on here towards males. So my advice would be trust your own instincts and stay off here. I only look at the gardening and litter tray threads, rest of it is very damaging and unhealthy.

The fact you are worrying about this is a great sign.

I have 2 boys, my eldest is 17 and he’s really involved in mentoring/training etc with younger kids to address issues with sec based violence as it starts young and escalates. I’m so proud of him being part of the solution and not the problem. But as others have said your husband and other males round him will have an impact. My husband and my dad are both gentle, quiet people, no men will be men or boorish/sexist attitudes and that has helped too I think

@MissyB1 Because boys and girls are treated differently in the world. Boys need to be treated differently so they can understand the power they naturally hold and how to not misuse that power subconsciously. Its not about giving different opportunities, its about teaching them to be respectful and mindful of the fact they will have different walks through the world and why its important that they are an active ally to girls and women.

@MissyB1 "Why would you raise them differently to your daughters? 🤔 Sorry I never get it when people come out with this basically sexiest crap."

Because we currently live in a society that socialises boys and girls differently, and has different rules and expectations for men and women. Something has to be going wrong somewhere to mean that over 90% of violence is committed by men and 77% of the people who die by suicide are men. Doesn't that look like something we should be thinking about, not dismissing as "sexist crap"?

No, Bob is not responsible for Clive’s behaviour, but if he sees that Clive’s behaviour is problematic/abusive/misogynistic and ignores it then he is part of the problem. My son would, and has, told his mates off for slagging off women. The people best placed to tell an adult man that his behaviour is unacceptable are his mates. If Clive’s being a creep then of course Bob should tell him!