Do some news items make you think that humanity is irredeemable? ***warning - upsetting subject, related to treatment of monkeys***

I hope Anonymous or one of those groups leak the names and details of every single person who was on this vile torture forum. If I ever found out someone I knew or was related to watched/paid to view this barbaric muck, I’d never have anything to do with them again. It’s disgusting and anyone involved is definitely deranged and should be avoided at all costs. As you can guess, I’m disgusted at some humans at the moment.

It's the same with the Yukon festival. Ok, maybe some people want to eat dogs. I don't think dogs were bred for that purpose, but ok.

Just because you eat dogs doesn't make it ok to torture dogs to death and deliberately inflict as much agony as possible.

Same here.

Not all farmed animals are tortured.

Eating meat is not inherently wrong.

Yes, there are degrees of I'll-treatment. Torture of baby primates is about as bad as you can get. I think it's pretty silly to say that slaughtering for meat within government regulations (albeit imperfect) is comparable to pure sadism.

Why can't both be condemned? It's a false assumption that people are ok with ive stock being tortured. Where that happens, it's also evil.

All this is is what about dry that derails this cruelty. How does this help anyone? It's not convincing anyone to be vegan and it diverts attention away from this topic.

I skim-read the article because I couldn't stomach the detail, but even so, this made me feel sick and it's haunted me all day. I'm not a vindictive person at all, but I found myself hoping that those who inflicted such atrocities on the monkeys, and those who paid to have others cause hideous suffering on their behalf, will themselves feel pain like that one day...and that when they do, they will remember those monkeys.

The worrying thing for me was that how normal many of the viewers of these videos were. These were people, men and women, with children and pets of their own, jobs...they were functioning members of society. How could they separate the love they presumably felt for their own children/pets from the unimaginable suffering endured by the monkeys - small, vulnerable, childlike - that they paid to have tortured? How do they look their own children in the eye after this?

@TulipTuesday I also thought that this case had strong parallels with child abuse.

@lucyhogan This is a false equivalence. The meat industry certainly has its faults but nobody is eating meat because they want to cause suffering to animals. I'm sure slaughterhouses are not very pleasant, but at least there is stunning, vetinary supervision etc in place to minimise suffering and although a few bad actors sneak in, I don't believe that the majority of abbatoir employees are deliberately setting out to torture the animals.

lucyhogan

Killing (not torturing) an animal for food is fine.

Torturing an animal to derive pleasure from watching it's pain is absolutely NOT FINE

I see no moral contradiction. I'm sure you do and are eager to give us your arguments. Don't bother, we know what you will say.

I’ve been to Monkey World too . Very long trip for us but worth it.

Alison is amazing among the primate world. She does so much and is the reason why trading apes is illegal in a lot of countries. It’s a shame her husband died. He was amazing too

Monkey World is great, I've been three times.

Although our work is in chimpanzees, there are horrific things also happening to monkeys.

Please consider a visit up Monkey World in Dorset, where they provide rescue & sanctuary for monkeys like this, instead of a zoo, this summer.

I could go on & on & on. Topical. Heart wrenching. I’m so angry today.

Shelly, your response did not explain why the meat trade and other forms of animal torture are not morally equivalent. It therefore made no sense as an argument.

What I think you're trying to argue is that there are degrees of animal torture, some of which are acceptable?

I gave a talk last week with Robert Ingersoll & Joyce Butler (both cared for Nim). Bob now works in monkey sanctuary, and secretly rescued 109 chimps and 65 monkeys from a medical research laboratory in the late 90s/00s.

The interview is about our book which we write undercover since he has been silenced. But we also talk about WHY we need to address these sorts of issues. If we can do this to animals with whom we share 97-98% of our DNA, what hope is there for how we treat each other???

I’m grinning like a loon in a lot of this (autistic nerves) but the Zoom link to our interview is here:

Absolutely. What purpose do we actually serve?
Monkeys (and apes) are far more useful to the planet. They eat plants and fruit then crap out the seeds. More plants and fruit grows, feeding plenty of other species and perpetuating the forest. Human beings perpetuate nothing other than themselves.

It's quite clear. You just don't have a response.

*some
not done

“some really sickening things about primates. I thought they were only being done in the 60s & 70s but they are still shockingly common.”

Coming late to this thread. I’m sickened, but not surprised. My recent work has unravelled done really sickening things about primates. I thought they were only being done in the 60s & 70s but they are still shockingly common.

My background is that I saw a film called Project Nim (it’s on Amazon Prime) about a chimpanzee taught sign language. I contacted one, if not THE best friend of Nim, a man called Robert Ingersoll, and in under 1 year we wrote a book undercover about some of the horrific things that were and are done to primates. We wrote about a wonderful woman from Cheshire named Shirley McGreal who saw crates of monkeys at Bangkok airport, ready for transportation. she single-handedly changed animal laws.

Oh I am so sad to read this today.

I am constantly sent stupid images “because you work with monkeys”. Pretty sure many originated from these groups. Any clip with a monkey or chimpanzee in cutesy clothing, performing tricks and “entertaining” is a part of this abuse.

I hope my - and others’ - reporting of these images to Facebook & Instagram has led to this investigation. Telegram is also a source of passing on this filth.

Hoping this is the start of a more general ban of primate porn.

That article was horrendous. I read most of it today and had to stop reading, it was so unpleasant. I just can’t believe there are people that vile in the world. It’s just evil.

But the meat market in the UK is heavily regulated. It’s not tortured. It’s not nice at times but places that get caught are handed a very large fine.

So one sort of animal torture is abhorrent, another is fine?

The rest of your argument makes no sense.

Please no... why is it that whenever someone criticises animal torture, someone has to bring in the meat trade to derail? You can't be vegan. You must be someone who just hates animals.

You know what, you're right. Anyone who eats meat is a hypocrite. Let's not give a shit. about baby primates being tortured by evil people who are also a threat to human beings due to their sadism. Makes sense.

I saw that report. Heartbreaking and horrifying. The vast majority of people would be sickened, but there's obviously a market for all types of evil shit.

How is gaining enjoyment from the suffering and death of animals not comparable? Just because you do one doesn't excuse it?

I agree with those saying humans are terrible. Even if 1% of humans are evil, that's 70 million people. The amount of destruction is unfathomable. To both other animals and each other... horrible.

As far as I'm concerned, there's very little difference between torturing a monkey and a human. I cannot read for their than the headline for this.

Ok…..these babies were literally being tortured. I’m talking removing of fingers and one was even thinking of buying a blender.

No where comparable to the meat trade

Ok you first🙄

Yes, because a poster being upset about how humans torture animals warrants this sarcastic reply🙄

Are you really comparing eating meat (which humans have done since we've been in existence) to one of these people getting off on deliberately inflicting pain and suffering or watching it?

I think you're probably right