Schools responsibility to more able children

In the schools I’m involved in all
of the focus (and money) is on closing the gap between the bottom 20%.
Apparently the greater depth pupils are catered for by the high quality teaching for all. My experience is that it depends a lot on the teacher. My children are not ‘exceptional’ but usually top 1 or 2 in the class but often have to go through simple maths concepts over and over so that everyone understands. It’s slow and they get fed up. But the good teachers then give appropriate challenge work and they do a couple of the easier questions to check they truly have understood.

Therr are numerous interventions, catch up sessions and tutoring sessions provided for lower ability. Nothing in school for higher ability. frustrating to say the least.

We do what we can at home but with working, various clubs etc, and often a refusal ag home, I’m sure they could achieve a lot more if pushed.

But, with limited resources, teachers already stretched and a what seems to be an increasing number of children with complex needs, I don’t blame the school. I don’t know what the answer is (except remove and educate privately which isn’t an option, or perhaps a new government!!)

My eldest finds this- she's also eight. I also was a bit like this at school, at least until I got to secondary and things got a bit more challenging and interesting. I encourage her to find joy where she can in what they do and to do her own reading about areas she finds interesting. All you can do really I think.

Sorry, I meant setting. In DC's primary they do maths together and take lowest performing kids out of assemblies to do catch up, so they get the most help. Unfortunately others all do the same stuff.

Oh yes and they do get to read books when finished with work, but that's a lot of reading in a day.

for bigger schools like 2 and 3 form entries you could easily split them into top, middle and bottom (obviously you wouldn't call them that)

I have been teaching long enough that I’ve worked in a school that did this. Believe me, no matter what you call the classes, the kids know. It had far-reaching consequences socially and was shocking for some pupils’ self esteem.

It was scrapped when people decided it was ever so important for teachers to have performance-related pay, as doing it by streamed classes was unfair and divisive. SMT talked about rotating it so that you had a different stream each year, but it would have affected people’s threshold applications too much. Nowadays, people just don’t stay in teaching long enough for a rotation to be workable.

@YSWIM "Why don't primary schools stream kids according to their levels, particularly in maths, but possible in English too?"

If you mean setting, then I think most schools do. If you mean streaming, then it's ineffective and divisive.

YANBU and I think this is on the school. Can you ask to meet with the teacher/head? My nephew is in a small class in a state school but is very bright indeed - some of the work he gets is the same as his peers but he is often provided more challenging work on the side also. For example he is not required to do spelling any more and is instead set different challenges in that time that are geared towards him. Your kids’ school should be able to provide this too. There are some kids who require special attention due to learning difficulties, and others who require special attention due to particularly speedy progress.

What do an indie / grammar or academic school that pp's listed do differently? My ds1 was at a good local school with many many gifted children in the top sets. These type of children who get 99% in practically every maths exam they do, all the way through schooling. Many get all A's at GCSE, 3 A* Alevel's and the top Uni for their chosen subject.

Are you on the gifted threads? What else are they suggesting you do?

I seriously don't know what you are expecting. It's sad but it is the way Quino explains, focusing on repeat, mastery, making sure the SEN keep up.
And it will be this way for the 10 years for your child. They can't learn the stuff from the year ahead, so they are just going to have to deal with it. Sad, but what is the alternative. Even in a private school, you still do GCSE's and then A'levels at a set time. Other than getting 3 x A* and getting into Oxbridge, what are you hoping they achieve?

Have a look online. Bbc bitesize isn't bad - my kids are using it for Hugh school topics. Friend uses white rose maths. Another pays kumon

I'd love a smaller class size. I haven't had less than 30 in a class for years.

Our year 6 class is only 15 yet I've got two year groups together of 30 children.

That's village schools for you 🥴

My ds is autistic so he has help in school to understand instructions and with his speech delay and social skills but he is miles ahead in maths and reading, he’s only 5 and knows his times tables. He will tell me which numbers fit into what and how many times and I have to check with a calculator 😂 and he was reading before he even started school. The school help where he is behind and needs support but unfortunately there’s no push to advance the things he’s ahead with so we do it at home and the same goes for my eldest.
It’s obviously worth going to the school with your concerns first but if you feel like they aren’t being challenged enough still you can do it at home. There’s so much information online on pretty much every subject even YouTube videos could help further their knowledge on topics they’re interested in if you can’t do it yourself and there’s plenty of apps that you can use to print work sheets off or maybe gets some tips from some home educating mums. I think schools ideally want most children to reach certain set targets by certain times but unfortunately don’t have the time, resources or funding to push the ones that are already excelling.

Placemarking

Would you like to find me more hours in the day, more energy and more support for me to actually achieve that?

@Muddygreenfingers I'd like the government to realise its impossible for all children to reach the same level unless that level is set too low for all but those of lowest academic ability.

I'd like teachers to be able/allowed to divide what little attention, TA time, intervention timd they can spare evenly across the class.

My 6 year old never gets to read with the teacher or TA. About once a term. The kids struggling read 2 or 3 times a week. This means a) my kid misses the only 1 on 1 time a kid ever gets with the teacher, that only opportunity for the teacher to see how they tick a bit. b) the teacher never actually assesses my kids reading, so they are regularly left on books that aren't suitable.

It's not fair. I know nothing is fair but I can't explain to my 6 year old why he gets less of his teacher's attention than his peers.

Ofsted not ofstead!

Because basically ofstead don't like it!

Must have been tough for you all but that is lovely to hear. Our primary do adaptive assessments at least once a half term, so they could easily change sets as and when. That way the lowest performing kids can really have the much needed help and the higher performing ones be stretched. Guess it's not so cost effective for the schools though as they care about the overall performance to raise rather than really challenging those who need it. "They will do well in SATs whether or not they get extra challenge.

@YSWIM because at that age it changes a lot. I say this as the mum of the twins due in October but born 30 August so very much the youngest in the year. They needed to be immersed in learning opportunities and by year 6 they were achieving great results. If they’d been streamed they wouldn’t have had the same opportunities because teachers didn’t see their potential as they were on the trajectory set out early on and their teachers always just accepted that was their aim and nothing more. Dtd1 is now predicted 8s and 9s at gcse and dtd 2 7s and 8s. Primary predicted they’d scrape their SATs - they actually achieved much higher.

Majority of dc in my dc class at primary were working “above expectations” with about 1/4 Working at “greater depth”. My twins were predicted “expected” in their SATs and surprised the teachers by getting “greater depth”.

school will be stretching them if it’s been identified but you can’t fully teach attitude to learning; it needs to be ingrained at home. Even if it’s “boring”.

Why don't primary schools stream kids according to their levels, particularly in maths, but possible in English too? Might not be so easy if one form entry but for bigger schools like 2 and 3 form entries you could easily split them into top, middle and bottom (obviously you wouldn't call them that)

I mean honestly, I don't just focus on the lowest.
I do try my absolute best to challenge my higher children. I'd say I achieve that probably 60-70% of the time. It's not good enough really, I know that.
Some lessons I focus more on getting their level right.
Other lessons I focus on the lowest.
I do try to balance it.

I have one child who is exceptional and could easily access high school maths.
I give him SATs arithmetic books and puzzles to do if it's a lesson I know he can do.

It's not easy though.

Right.
So in that case, because every single child in my class deserves to have their needs met, I absolutely have to do this for every child.

In an ideal world.
Would you like to find me more hours in the day, more energy and more support for me to actually achieve that?

Totally agree with this, I know a bit of an individualised approach can add to the already stretched workload of teachers but small things like this really make the difference. My DC was the designated photocopier! Also watered plants and tidied nature tables. Was sent to other classrooms with notes to other teachers... one teacher admitted that sometimes the note might just say 'Just need to entertain Toxcity's DC for 10mins'! 🤣 They were the best group of teachers you could ask for.

At my DC state primary school, they seem to be coping with the diversity and ability in the class. Having just gone through SATs, they were very keen on stretching children who should be near or easily achieving greater depth - it’s all good stats for the school and progress scores. It’s going to really vary by teacher/class but I don’t think it’s the case schools don’t routinely stretch children and are only focused on those struggling. It’s something OFSTED also pick up on.

Oooh, and books, lots of extra books that they can bring to school. My DC used to bring sudoku and puzzle books and sketch books etc. too that he could pull out when they were done with the regular class work. He still does this as a teen in school now.