Given notice at work

Do employers withhold references often? I can’t imagine it’s worth the hassle - ex employees calling up and taking time/resources to argue their case. Surely even if you leave early, thereafter they just issue the standard tombstone - dates worked from / to, the end.

Because at these later dates, the employer has nothing to gain from being difficult about a standard factual reference. Most employers, particularly large employers, don’t bother holding a grudge once the employer has left do they?

Good for you! I wish you all the success in your new found freedom.

Do you need a reference from them?

Is it worth jeopardising that?

They have got a bit of a cheek and ican understand your point of view. Check your contract. Weigh up the risks of a not great reference. And the chance of damage to your reputation. If they arent worrying you then just leave.

You must have some rights, even before two years are up. That seems a long notice period; standard is a month.

If you don't need a reference or the money, there is no way an employer can make you go in and work. They only have one card to play and that is not paying you, anything else is empty.

If I were you I would book any annual leave to be taken immediately - it's reasonable, most people would be looking frantically for another job.

Use the time off to get advice and think about what to do.

I would almost certainly end up signed off sick with WRS because I would be pretty upset; I find treatment of this kind very distressing and hard not to take personally. I certainly would not feel any obligation to this employer.

Best thing is to get another job that starts immediately. It stops you thinking about it.

Nothing actually happens if you don’t work your notice period (except forgoing payment for the notice period obviously). If you don’t want to work it and don’t need the money, simply don’t do it.

It depends how specialised the system is and what op’s skills are. It’s perfectly possible she’s skilled at running the system but not a natural trainer. It’s not been part of her role so far, they said no when she asked if she could show a colleague part of what she does do she had cover on annual leave.
It also depends on her colleagues skills and experiences.
If they are expecting a junior to hit ground running at a senior level then it’s not going to happen.

@BlockbusterVideoCard You might be prepared to go back to work for somewhere that made you redundant after less than 2 years but that would be an absolute no for me. I would happily torch the bridge with an employer like that. This employer has absolutely no integrity whatsoever and will absolutely do this again and again until they start struggling to recruit because of their reputation.

Also phone acas...

Sorry you've lost your job Op no way I'd be handing everything overly nice and neatly. Extensive swanning over to the water cooler for epic conversations would definitely be occurring...

As well as lacking humour you seem to be under the impression all employers have integrity and should be afforded the utmost respect. What integrity has the OP’s employers shown? The OP need not give another ounce of herself to that business unless it’s for her own benefit. So she should take sick leave, take any annual leave left, drag her heels at work. Why should she she give them her best self?

I';d get signed off sick, can your employment end if you are signed off?

I'd make everything as difficult as possible for them and leave out a key part of training.

Don't know if it's still the case, but I was told that even if your t+c's state 3 months, if you're paid monthly, a month's notice is all they can hold you to.

OP it is somewhat unfair that they have engineered it to be within the two years, but the experience of setting up a new system and a good reference for it will take you far. I would echo what others have said about not burning the rungs of the ladder. I don't think you have more than a moderate gripe here.

And three months is quite a good notice period (although does that take you over the 2 years, double check what your rights are and whether they have miscalculated something in a way that might be in your favour).

Occasionally we have somewhere we never ever would go back to even if the chips were severely down, for good reason, but this is not the case mostly and not the case here.

and want me to spend three months training the people to replace me!

In fairness, you will be doing this during the work hours you are being paid for so there is nothing wrong with them wanting you to do this.

Can't you have an interview every day, thought they have to give you time off for interviews when you are being made redundant

The law is not quite as clean cut as that. It depends on the circumstances of the dismissal. Also, I said wrongful dismissal to which the 2 year rule does not apply (and it doesn't apply to automatic unfair dismissal either). Working out the circumstances might lay out the basis for a claim.

Once you have a claim, the OP can go to their employer and say "look, I just want to go. I can make this claim against you, but if you just let me go now we'll call it quits."

There are about 60 grounds for automatic unfair dismissal, many of which the 2 year rule doesn't apply. The OP can probably find one 😁

I think that’s rather harsh just because someone has an alternative opinion.

The OP is in a position to inform the business that they should consult with her. 2 years of service can be very misunderstood so it’s not as clear cut as saying that not reaching that milestone means OP has no rights (for example if there are protected characteristics, for example.

Just because this business are choosing to try to get around doing the right thing doesn’t mean that a) OP has to accept that poor treatment and b) doesn’t mean that they wouldn’t reconsider their approach if they were challenged.

OP, hope you get the advice you need and a good resolution.

She's not been made redundant, she's just been given notice and dismissed.

@BetterFuture1985 redundancy and unfair dismissal right only kick in after 2 years. OP has worked there for less than 2 years. Her employer just needs to give contractual notice. They probably planned the timing. Short of discrimination etc (no suggestion of that here), there is nothing OP can do about it.

Sorry, to answer your original question, yes you still have to work your notice but if your own notice period is normally shorter than three months then you are free to resign and leave earlier. You'll forego redundancy pay but doesn't sound like you are giving up much there.

However, I think the legal issue that seems a bit suspect is whether you were made redundant in accordance with the law. You can't just be kicked out and replaced by someone cheaper, that's wrongful dismissal.

I'm a bit confused as to how they can make you redundant if your job still exists and needs to be handed over? Can you give me more background on that so I can work out if they have done this legally? It is possible to reduce headcount in a department and select employees for redundancy or to merge two roles but this sounds like a full on handover of a job to someone else and it doesn't sound quite right.

Just to offer an alternative perspective …

In the nicest way possible OP… it’s business. It won’t be personal. They hired you to do a job. You’ve completed that job. So they don’t need you any more 🤷‍♀️

This is entirely predictable. Companies do not owe you a job. They will 100% bin you as soon as you’re not convenient for them any more. It’s the same for everyone.

it sucks! But that’s life.

Treat your next job accordingly. Realise and embrace that you could be binned at any time. Plan accordingly. Scout the job market and salaries minimum of once a quarter. Move when YOU are ready. Drop any company instantly for a pay rise.

Jobs are not for life.

honestly I’d take the three months salary. Style it out doing not very much for the whole summer (nice!). Job hunt like it’s your job now.

This.

Will it be a busy 3 months at work? If not can you use some of the time to apply for jobs, brush up CV etc. Better than doing it in your own time unpaid.

OP, you manage people so you know this. You cannot force someone to do their job to a high standard. Much less someone who has been asked to leave. The fact that your employer expects you to train your replacement makes me think they are living in cloud cuckoo land. Who ever willingly dug their own grave.

You sound like a conscientious person so you think you have to show up and do a good job. Fuck that. Think of your least fave report. The one you spent 80% of your time managing. Now be that person. Channel them. Do the least. Keep 'em guessing. Sometimes you turn up, others you have D&V. Oh sorry, things happen. My grandfather is hospitalised. Childcare broke down, have to work from home. Sorry sorry.

Then, don't train 'em properly. Mumble, keep changing your instructions. Miss out key things. Don't file things where people expect to find them. Isn't that what others have been doing to you?

Relish it. Now is your big chance to get your inner pisstake artist out of your system. Then smile and wave goodbye. Very envious.