Parental alienation?

MoonlightLily · 2023-05-28T16:56:54+00:00

I want to give my ex an ultimatum of either step up or step out but this is apparently parental alienation? He sees them as a when he can be bothered no set times at all he refuses to stick to any schedule or be consistent, he will only tell me a few days before that he wants to see them 🙄 he will go a month or more without seeing them at all. He won't see them any more than once a month at the most (not overnight) I'm sick of him dropping them and picking them up when he feels like it its upsetting the children who feel like they barely know him (the most time he has spent with them was 4 hours) apparently its parental alienation for me to give him an ultimatum. So this should just carry on? as its affecting the children who don't know when they are seeing him from one minute to the next.

Original poster

MoonlightLily · 30/05/2023 10:36

SunThroughTheCloudsAt6am · 30/05/2023 09:06

How old are the children? They must be pretty small if they see him as a stranger seeing him once a month? Lots of kids seem their grandparents once a month for instance and wouldn't regard them as strangers.

I think it's more to do with how the other person treats them. Mine see their dad once a fortnight. Don't want overnights, were horrified at the idea of going on holiday with him.

Happily stay with their grandparents who they see maximum 2-3 times a year (less through covid obviously), and look forward to visiting/being visited.

I presume it's because they feel a warmth and love and interest from their grandparents, whereas ex could never really be bothered with them, even when we lived together.

I think it would be cruel to encourage them to want to see a father who can't be bothered - it's only going to lead to them feeling abandoned by him - vs. letting him make the effort, so realistic expectations of the level of effort he's prepared to make are set.

Thank you I’m surprised that people can’t see why they see him as a stranger so this explains it well and I’m glad you understand. The relationship with him isn’t a good or positive one when he took them to the cinema the children said he was sleeping the whole time now I know you can’t speak in a cinema anyway but imagine turning and seeing your father fast asleep what kind of message does that send? This is the first time he has actually taken them out alone, he has come to my house before this due to his absence so getting to know the children again but he would do the same here fall asleep on the sofa as if he was bored. The kids see him as a stranger as he doesn’t really interact with them even the cinema trip he tried to get me to come. They don’t know his family, his friends, they know don’t anything about his life, they haven’t been to his house. That’s why they see him as a stranger. They don’t see my mum often but they don’t see her as a stranger as the relationship is totally different she is loving and warm towards them shows an interest in them, bakes cakes with them, cooks with them, plays games with them, it’s a different type of relationship their father seems very cold and uninterested and i genuinely think he only sees them out of guilt. The children don’t even refer to him as dad they call him by his name.

OP posts:

SunThroughTheCloudsAt6am · 30/05/2023 09:06

How old are the children? They must be pretty small if they see him as a stranger seeing him once a month? Lots of kids seem their grandparents once a month for instance and wouldn't regard them as strangers.

I think it's more to do with how the other person treats them. Mine see their dad once a fortnight. Don't want overnights, were horrified at the idea of going on holiday with him.

Happily stay with their grandparents who they see maximum 2-3 times a year (less through covid obviously), and look forward to visiting/being visited.

I presume it's because they feel a warmth and love and interest from their grandparents, whereas ex could never really be bothered with them, even when we lived together.

I think it would be cruel to encourage them to want to see a father who can't be bothered - it's only going to lead to them feeling abandoned by him - vs. letting him make the effort, so realistic expectations of the level of effort he's prepared to make are set.

Original poster

MoonlightLily · 29/05/2023 16:02

Hellno45 · 29/05/2023 15:57

Personally, I would let them know you're open to contact. You have no idea what he is telling them. Like many of these arsehole men I'm sure you have been painted as a psycho who is obstructing them and him having a relationship. At least, when your kids are older, you can tell you tried your best to initiate contact. Ultimately, it's up to you.

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Tbh his sister knows that wouldn't be the case he was an older child he doesn't see either (I didn't know about this child when we first got together) so he has form for it and his sister knows what he is like we've spoken in the past years ago when we broke up and I messaged him reaching out for contact when she found out that it was me that contacted him she told me to never do that again (never be the one to reach out to him, let him do it) so safe to say she knows what he is like but that was a good few years ago now not been in contact with her for years.

OP posts:

Hellno45 · 29/05/2023 15:57

MoonlightLily · 29/05/2023 14:29

Thank you thats how I feel surely its their job to reach out? Not to me but to the kids? Ex has come down for Xmas and birthday but never bought anything from his family (not saying has to be a present) but just a card, they know its the children's birthday as ex puts up pictures on WhatsApp but he's never said oh my sister/brother said happy birthday. I find that odd really and I won't chase them for a relationship as they don't sound like great people.

Personally, I would let them know you're open to contact. You have no idea what he is telling them. Like many of these arsehole men I'm sure you have been painted as a psycho who is obstructing them and him having a relationship. At least, when your kids are older, you can tell you tried your best to initiate contact. Ultimately, it's up to you.

Original poster

MoonlightLily · 29/05/2023 14:29

Thank you thats how I feel surely its their job to reach out? Not to me but to the kids? Ex has come down for Xmas and birthday but never bought anything from his family (not saying has to be a present) but just a card, they know its the children's birthday as ex puts up pictures on WhatsApp but he's never said oh my sister/brother said happy birthday. I find that odd really and I won't chase them for a relationship as they don't sound like great people.

OP posts:

Starlightstarbright1 · 29/05/2023 13:04

Honestly all this nonsense tracking relatives , running round to make him step up . Op has enough to do looking after the children ex doesn’t bother with .

I would give him once a fortnight opportunity - document if he doesn’t come any reason he gives.

SwordToFlamethrower · 29/05/2023 12:48

Just ghost the fecker

tailinthejam · 29/05/2023 11:48

MoonlightLily · 28/05/2023 18:13

Nope a parenting group i asked about giving him an ultimatum some of the parents have said its parental alienation

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Well they were talking out of their arse. He is alienating himself. All you want to do is to put your foot down and say that no, he can't do whatever he damn well pleases, when he wants to do it, because it is upsetting the dc.

Augend23 · 29/05/2023 11:36

I'd add to this with "if they haven't been collected by <30 minutes after start time> then they may make other plans> or similar so you aren't stuck waiting from 9-1 or whatever only for him to rock up at midday.

Give it til 9:30 and then go to the park or whatever if he's not there by then.

BlackeyedSusan · 29/05/2023 11:33

If you can afford to go to, say soft play once a month or the pub with a playground or Macdonald's you might set that up as a regular supervised available for contact time. He can build a relationship with the kids and progress (or not) from there.

Original poster

MoonlightLily · 29/05/2023 11:32

I'm not sure if exes family are on Facebook I've seen his Facebook but he doesn't have any family members on there. Tbh ex has come down for their birthdays and for Xmas completely empty handed which says it all his family could have sent cards for the children even my own aunty who I haven't seen since I was a child has sent me cards and money In the post for the kids so I think it says it all that his family haven't bothered.

OP posts:

Original poster

MoonlightLily · 29/05/2023 11:26

Freeballing · 29/05/2023 11:17

How old are the children? They must be pretty small if they see him as a stranger seeing him once a month? Lots of kids seem their grandparents once a month for instance and wouldn't regard them as strangers.

I'm in no way saying what he is doing is good or acceptable and I understand it must be annoying but personally I would facilitate it until the kids are old enough to arrange access by themselves if they want to.

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Sorry to clarify that he was absent for 2 years he has only been back in contact since October and has seen them around 5 times since. So yes he feels very much like a stranger to them especially my youngest who was 3 when she last saw him so has no memory of him (she didn't see him from 3 till 5) I can see they feel uncomfortable around him and act completely different when he is around. Also spending 2/3 hours with them once a month is not enough time to get to know him so they don't view him as a father and call him by his name they have no bond with him and don't regard him as a father my son told me he has no father.

OP posts:

Freeballing · 29/05/2023 11:17

MoonlightLily · 28/05/2023 20:09

I can't honestly deal with him seeing them once a month for a few hours anymore its causing too much resentment the kids don't want to see him anyway they don't want to go with him and I think that's because he is so uninvolved they see him as a stranger he needs to see them once a week not once a month its not even over night and is all on his terms he will tell me 2/3 days before

How old are the children? They must be pretty small if they see him as a stranger seeing him once a month? Lots of kids seem their grandparents once a month for instance and wouldn't regard them as strangers.

I'm in no way saying what he is doing is good or acceptable and I understand it must be annoying but personally I would facilitate it until the kids are old enough to arrange access by themselves if they want to.

Hellno45 · 29/05/2023 11:15

MoonlightLily · 29/05/2023 11:12

yeah I would be happy for a relationship but I’ve never heard from them I’m not going to reach out they can ask ex for my number I have no way of contacting them and don’t feel comfortable asking ex for their numbers it would be a little odd as we don’t have that kind of relationship. I have no way to contact them otherwise than through him.

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Original poster

MoonlightLily · 29/05/2023 11:12

yeah I would be happy for a relationship but I’ve never heard from them I’m not going to reach out they can ask ex for my number I have no way of contacting them and don’t feel comfortable asking ex for their numbers it would be a little odd as we don’t have that kind of relationship. I have no way to contact them otherwise than through him.

OP posts:

Hellno45 · 29/05/2023 11:08

MoonlightLily · 29/05/2023 10:49

No I won’t be messaging them. I would if it was his parents 100% but not siblings. He has a sister and a brother but they’ve never reached out in any way but I don’t feel comfortable reaching out to siblings as it’s different from a parent imo. I have siblings myself who barely bother with my kids.

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That's a shame. I would fight tooth and nail to have a relationship with my nephews if the mother's were receptive. I'd be prepared to fall out with my siblings over it.

Original poster

MoonlightLily · 29/05/2023 10:49

Hellno45 · 29/05/2023 10:36

It's ashame that his siblings aren't interested. Could you reach out to them.

I would message them...

I would really like the children to know your side of the family. It's important that they have the largest network of love and support avaliable to them. I am happy to facilitate any contact you would like to have with them. If your interested in meeting please get in touch.

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No I won’t be messaging them. I would if it was his parents 100% but not siblings. He has a sister and a brother but they’ve never reached out in any way but I don’t feel comfortable reaching out to siblings as it’s different from a parent imo. I have siblings myself who barely bother with my kids.

OP posts:

TheFireflies · 29/05/2023 10:39

It’s not parental alienation. It does exist, but like many other phrases in common use these days, it’s most often misused.

You need to do what is right for your children OP, and if they’re distressed by his unreliability then it’s him causing the problems, not you.

Hellno45 · 29/05/2023 10:36

MoonlightLily · 29/05/2023 09:42

Ah unfortunately both of exes parents had passed away before I met him so no parents ever involved. He has siblings but no they aren’t interested at all. I’m going to do what you suggested I cant have the once a month or every 6 weeks things continue it’s really unfair on the children not knowing if/when they are going to see him again. He lives in the same city as us and doesn’t work so there’s really no excuse at this point other than him not wanting to.

Show quote history

It's ashame that his siblings aren't interested. Could you reach out to them.

I would message them...

I would really like the children to know your side of the family. It's important that they have the largest network of love and support avaliable to them. I am happy to facilitate any contact you would like to have with them. If your interested in meeting please get in touch.