Schoo trip first come first served

It is super easy to run a lottery system, probably 5 mins max to run it

Except it isn't, it's actually quite a bit more time consuming to run. The software that we use sends out emails, asks parents to sign up, and once the places are full, it runs a waiting list. This is all done automatically.

If we did a lottery system, then this would have to be done manually, would involve making lists, selecting names the old fashioned way (quite literally out of a hat!) sending out many more emails, and would be much more time consuming. I appreciate that this may depend on the systems used, but for my scout group, this is how it would be. And I'm only talking about a cub pack of 30, it would be much more time consuming for a school year group.

What are those prices?!? 😱 My kid has been in private schools since reception and I've never seen school trip prices like the ones you mention. Ski trips, New York trip, trip to the Algarve etc. are all around the £1500 mark. Your school is nuts.

It is super easy to run a lottery system, probably 5 mins max to run it.

First come first served with several days warning would be better, though I still feel any time would disadvantage some.

Restricting numbers is reasonable in my view.

Firstly, any school trip that takes place during school hours in the UK CANNOT ask for payment - they can only request a voluntary donation. The school then has (limited) funds to subsidise pupils from very low income families who cannot afford school trips.*

Isn't that for educational trips?

I disagree with this.

How on earth is it the fairest way?!?!

What about parents who work? Parents who don't have instant access to a phone/computer? Parents who cannot pay immediately?

Firstly, any school trip that takes place during school hours in the UK CANNOT ask for payment - they can only request a voluntary donation. The school then has (limited) funds to subsidise pupils from very low income families who cannot afford school trips*.

The ONLY fair way to do it is to give people a time period (say 48 hours) to ask for a place, then if there are more demands than spaces, a fair ballot needs to take place.

• If too many parents refuse to pay the voluntary donation but want their child to go on the school trip, the trip has to be cancelled.

Lottery is inherently more fair than first come first served and no more difficult to administer. Why wouldn’t schools do that?

While it may be fairer, it's almost certainly more difficult to administer, as presumably the school are using software that they just set up and let run. It would be more work to do a lottery system, I would think.

I'm a cub leader, and organise about 6 trips/camps per year. Most are unlimited for attendance, but sometimes we have to limit numbers. We always do this on a first come, first served basis - it's the easiest way due to the software we use, I don't have time (or inclination) to run it any other way. Sometimes I release the details during the working day, with no notice (not even an hour, because of the way our system works). And because that's when it suits me to do it.

I do agree that a little more notice would be good, but the timing of the 'release' may just have to be during office hours, as that's when the teachers are available to release it. I appreciate that this will vary according to the software used, but may explain why some schools can't be more flexible.

At the end of the day, no system is perfect, and you'll always annoy someone!

I felt really sad for your DS (and you!) reading this.

It's so unfair. Nearly impossible for you to have paid in time.

I thought this too

This reminds me of the brilliant sports camp that was available for a few weeks in the school holidays. It was great value and tremendous fun, apparently as my DS never got in.

The phone lines for booking opened at 8am on a Monday so the only DCs that ever got in had SAHMs able to dial in at that point.

@paq. Thanks. And you sound like someone who could benefit from seeing how much good can be done by opening opportunities to children (and some of the adults who work with them). Michael and Clare Morpurgo were called “do-gooders”
too. Almost 50 years later, look how many children have been impacted by their “do gooding”

@Sailawaytocromer I won't reply again because OP's thread is about the method of including children in the trip, not the merits of it. But genuinely you sound like every middle class do-gooder who waded into the charity I worked for, telling us how we could do things better, when having really examined or thought about the issues.

@Paq “You'll be one of those that thinks that every deprived kid is a nascent Billy Elliott or some other fairy tale.”

how patronising. No. But I think deprived children need opportunities and not to be fobbed off and patronised with trips that don’t offer any educational value. A youth group going to a theme park? Great! A school? Use the money for something a bit more adventurous…

I would honestly but a ticket and take him to the same theme park on the same day. I don't see what the problem is if the parent pays for it and is there to supervise

@paq The university town I live in puts on a week of free amazing science activities for children every year. It’s drop in, right in the centre of town, within walking distance of more than a dozen schools. The families who go are overwhelmingly middle class/privileged. It upsets me every year. I asked a few local families if they’d be interested in going and they said “my kids won’t like it”, “science is boring” etc. It’s drop in and it’s free. It’s lead by engaged and brilliant students. I persuaded one to go and they were amazed that their children enjoyed it so much. THIS IS WHY I am so passionate about schools being ambitious for children - especially when they don’t have parents whose lived experiences are pretty limited.

Those children don’t need to become scientists, but they had an interesting few hours, had the chance to chat to and be taught by students, saw inside amazing university labs, had a different experience.

Yes I’m a middle class fairly privileged parent. But I don’t spend a huge amount on extra curricular things and any free/low cost local events that sound interesting we will probably try.

I have also taught under privileged children rurally (some of them may well not have been on an escalator either but most know all there was to know about lambing!). It is so important that schools educate and nurture - treats are great but if our school ran a trip to a theme park I think most parents would be really surprised and question that decision.

Similar situation the other day for me so I sympathise. I knew my DS wanted to go on a certain trip, the teachers had told them about it a few weeks ago so knew it would be coming up but didn’t know when. They announced it at 2pm but I was in a meeting which I was out of by 3pm so I went to pay for it but places had all gone.

I’d promised DS he could go and had been keeping an eye on the app for the announcement but obviously couldn’t help being in a meeting at the time. Can’t believe they announced in when most parents would be at work tbh, found it very unfair. Also surprised all 40 places had gone within an hour. It’s not a theme park trip, it’s a science museum. He’s in year 8 and been having a tough time with bullying so I feel mega guilty because I’d promised him.

Why not? What's the problem with this?

You simply don't get it. It's fine, unless you have worked in and with communities that have deep and persistent deprivation you never will. You'll be one of those that thinks that every deprived kid is a nascent Billy Elliott or some other fairy tale.

If only ... the rules and regs behind school trips are huge. Every trip just generates complaints like these from parents who don't appreciate what has to go in to organising and running a trip. Very rarely do any parents thank staff afterwards.

Yup, ours too. gives them time also to look at other factors e.g. some trips you get priority if you're doing a related subject for GCSE

I think anyone who works with young people should be able to recognise that selective trips to theme parks are really unfair and shouldn’t be happening. It’s a perfectly valid complaint. It would actually be better not to organise it at all. Organising a trip for a specific group eg those studying x is fine but I really don’t understand why school staff can be onboard for these highly selective trips that exclude many people. Picking out of a hat isn’t a whole lot better either

@Paq I’m not on a high horse. I understand that many children have few opportunities to do very much with their families or to travel out of their village/town. But it’s not a race to the bottom.

For children who have limited opportunities, I’d just love for the schools to be ambitious enough for them that a theme park might not trump something that could show them a bit more life… There is SO much out there that is free/low cost for children. Lots of parents can’t or won’t engage their children but schools can.

All trips at our secondary are first come first served unless its necessary for the lesson (local geography field trip for example) even the expensive ones. The ski trip this year was £2500 and first come first served.

Geography big trip was open to all as it was for gcse to stud the glaciers for 5 days but sons not going on that one as its around £3,800.

It's not fair but at the same, I wouldn't want to try and arrange a trip for a whole year group, 1 year group at our school is 300 hundred children.

Set a limit and first come first served is the fairest way and it won't do anyone any harm

This is how our school do it.

Much fairer.