Sorry posting for traffic need urgent EHCP help

My now 16 year old is in a sen school and is very much like your child.
He has been in the school since he was 11.
This school is more bespoke in that they taylor to the individual rather then the class so it doesn't matter if there is learning difficulties or not.
It's a shame that all counties don't have a school just like this one.

I know its hard but it's just one big fight, hopefully at tribunal you can voice your opinion and get the school your child needs and rightly deserves.

The arguments in this book might be helpful, as the author uses a large study which you might be able to cite.
https://www.uclpress.co.uk/products/152465 (is free to download the PDF)

As you can see from Mencap links they talk about both learning difficulty and learning difficulties. Learning disabilities is not the same thing as learning difficulties (generalised or specific).

This is going to be my last post as this is derailing OP’s thread. But as I outlined above, there is a difference between a learning difficulty (singular, specific), and learning difficulties (global, moderate/severe). Have a look at your Mencap link and see which one they are using. They are quite right that a specific learning difficulty is different from learning difficulties/disabilities.

Moderate and severe learning difficulties have everything to do with IQ; indeed, that is how they are diagnosed… and to add to that, once the child turns 18 and has proven impairment of activities in daily living (as per the NICE guidelines) then the descriptor for their needs changes from e.g. moderate learning difficulty to moderate learning disability.

I didn’t dispute the fact learning disability is also about everyday activities. I was disputing that fact learning disability and learning difficulty aren’t the same the thing, and that learning difficulties aren’t about academic ability.

Children can be diagnosed with learning disabilities. For example, GOSH mention children having such a diagnosis here.

A quote from Mencap here “A learning disability is different from a learning difficulty as a learning difficulty does not affect general intellect.”

BTW if you do this for a living you would know moderate learning disability is actually an IQ of 35-49, not just an IQ of less than 70.

Specific learning difficulties aren’t about IQ, that is correct. (Although many years ago, dyslexia was diagnosed through a discrepancy with general leaning ability, thankfully those days are gone!)

Moderate and severe learning difficulties have everything to do with IQ; indeed, that is how they are diagnosed.

@Annoyingnamechangerperson there are different sorts of special schools though. And while many have a lot of students who are below average, they do have able students too and decent special school will provide the support that your son needs while making sure he reaches his academic potential. You just have to find it.

From your own Mencap link: “A learning disability is a reduced intellectual ability and difficulty with everyday activities – for example household tasks, socialising or managing money – which affects someone for their whole life.”

Which is exactly what I explained unthread. In the UK, a learning disability is diagnosed after the age of 18, when there is the presence of an IQ under 70 (moderate learning difficulties) plus difficulty with daily living tasks following assessment.

I’m not making it up; this is what I do for a living and have published in this area

If his learning difficulties have a significant impact on his ability to learn, it doesn't matter how bright he is, he needs to be in an environment that supports him socially and to care for himself. It's called learning to learn. The academic learning can't happen if he's wandering the streets and needs toilet changing. There is no point in being good at maths if you abscond from lessons because you are overwhelmed/ need the toilet/ hungry etc and can't say.

The fact remains that OP’s child cannot be classed as academically bright if they have also been diagnosed with severe learning difficulties

Yes, DC can. Learning difficulties aren’t about IQ.

No. Children under 18 can have a diagnosis of learning disability. A learning disability is a specific diagnosis in its own right. It is an IQ below 70, and classified as mild, moderate, severe or profound. A learning difficulty is separate and while it may be a disability as per the Equality Act it is separate to the diagnosis of a learning disability. It may be a general learning difficulty or a specific learning difficulty such as dyslexia. Obviously people may have both.

Mencap explain they aren’t the same thing here. You can also see the classifications for mild, moderate, severe and profound learning disabilities here on the NICE website. Mild is an IQ of 50-69. Moderate 35-49. Severe 20-34. Profound <20.

We had a very similar situation. It is really tough. Absolutely not legal though for the LA to say no out of county or refuse transport if it is the closest school that can meet need - so I would hold on to that and focus on showing why your school can meet need and the mainstreams can’t (their responses to the La consultations are likely to be v helpful there if you can get hold of them in time). Good luck! My daughter is now in specialist y7 and thriving.

We also have specific learning difficulties such as dyslexia, dyscalculia etc. That is classed as specific to one domain of learning.

(Some practitioners state that you can’t have an SpLD if you also have MLD but this is under debate (and not relevant to OP).)

The fact remains that OP’s child cannot be classed as academically bright if they have also been diagnosed with severe learning difficulties. I’d be asking your EP to explain that one further @Annoyingnamechangerperson!

My son was dx with moderate learning difficulties when he was dx alongside all the other co morbids but he did secure 8 GCSEs and 3 level 3 Btechs. His dx at the time was most likely because he wasn't able to speak and couldn't be directed. It's surprisingly difficult to get a dx removed though. I think I managed it when he was seventeen but he'd had it on his SSEN/EHCP since he was just three.

Not quite. An IQ of 70 or less is known as moderate learning difficulties while the child is under 18. Once they are 18 and a further assessment of daily living is carried out, that along with the IQ of 70 or less is then reclassified as a learning disability. That’s in the NHS. Obviously other countries use different definitions; for example you will see learning disability in children in the USA.

Just to add dd has an IQ of 162 and went to specialist school so SENDIASS have advised you wrongly. Her school was also out of County and they funded transport as well. My son went to a different specialist school, again in a different County to the one where we live and the one where dd's school was and again they funded transport.

Learning difficulties and learning disability aren’t the same thing. Having an IQ below 70 is a learning disability.

… and therefore mainstream will not be suitable, is what I meant to add!

I went through something similar, visited the school that the LA said could meet needs and the school were eager to have him. They showed me round, we got to the second floor and I just said "what are you going to do to ensure nobody touches him or annoys him at any given time because if they do and he's up here the source of his annoyance or the nearest person to him will be put over that bannister and it's quite a drop" and just like that the school withdrew their offer. Schools don't always get the full picture and they don't always consider the realities and they almost never have the resources to cope with every eventuality. Ask the school the questions that will make the panel question their suitability.

“severe learning difficulties however is academically very bright” this isn’t possible. Severe learning difficulties means an IQ of 70 or less. This isn’t academically very bright.

I spoke to sendias but she was saying no SEN school would take him as he was intelligent I ended up leaving the meeting without any hope to be honest. It ended with her saying home schooling is always an option.

No, don’t EHE! If there isn’t a suitable school there is EOTAS which means the LA retain responsibility.

It’s nonsense that DC who are academically able can’t attend SS. Some DC attending SS sit GCSEs, A levels and go on to university. SS catering for academically able pupils aren’t as common, but they do exist, and if there isn’t one suitable there is EOTAS. And, as you say, there is much more to DS’s needs than academics.