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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to ask who is in the wrong here?

179 replies

bringincrazyback · 19/05/2023 01:36

Perspectives on a row DH and I just had would be appreciated. I'm beyond frustrated at this point.

Context is housework that needs doing before a few days away. (Further context: DH's mother is a dyed-in-the-wool traditionalist who never taught any of her sons how to do housework, because their wives would do all that kind of thing.)

DH never takes the initiative with anything housework-wise, literally doesn't seem to know how to do certain things, and unless directly asked by me, does none apart from doing the bins, a bit of cooking and washing up. No actual cleaning unless asked a million times. Arguments over housework, and the need to do more of it, are frequent because he doesn't care what state the house is in and thinks I should stop being uptight and do next to no housework. Not happening. (For info, I have ME and various pain issues which mean I have to pace myself carefully where things like housework are concerned.)

Earlier this evening:
Me: Will you have time to give me a hand with the housework over the next couple of evenings?
DH: Yes, of course, just text me a list. (I always get this 'text me a list' business, even when I tell him verbally what needs doing. He seems incapable of seeing for himself what needs doing.)
Me: Well, W, X, Y and Z need doing. I don't like texting a list, it makes me feel like I'm issuing orders.
DH while I've been telling him what needs doing: several repetitions of 'yeah, yeah,' which usually means (and I think this time is no exception) that he isn't listening.

So I get cracking, do as much as I am able, but not the stuff I'd already asked him to do, stupidly thinking he'll come and do it as he appeared to have agrred to do.
DH spends the whole evening in his man cave.

Conversation at bedtime:
Me: You will be able to help with the housework tomorrow, right?
DH: You didn't text me a list.
Me: No, but I told you what needed doing.
DH: That's not my recollection. I said to text me a list.
Me: I didn't need to, I told you what needed doing.

A bit more verbal ping-pong and he's claiming he's 'always' cleaning the kitchen worktop and the area where the cats' bowls are. By 'cleaning' it transpires he means sweeping his hand over the surfaces, catching bits and binning them. Possibly passing a damp cloth over them at most.

Me: You need to use the anti-bacterial spray as well.
DH: (makes a contemptuous noise) No one needs to use anti-bacterial spray unless they're Michael Jackson.
(There's a whole list of things normal sensible people do, which he deems unnecessary and neurotic, apparently this is one of them... a few years back he sneered at me for saying toilets needed cleaning under the rim and said didn't I know how gravity works?)

A bit of further quarrelling and he huffs out of bed and stomps to the spare room with the words, 'I'm an adult, I make my own decisions.'

AIBU for expecting him (as an adult, as he's so at pains to tell me) to use a bit more initiative, to not just weasel out of keeping promises on a technicality, and... to actually listen to me?

OP posts:
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purplehair1 · 21/05/2023 12:17

Text him a list. Make it longer than the original list. If he wasn’t listening he won’t remember. If he was listening he will protest and then you’ve got proof he didn’t need the list.

DelphiniumBlue · 20/05/2023 10:19

I have tried doing this by sitting down with offending parties (DH, teens ) and saying we'll create a list together of all the jobs that need doing daily/weekly/ less often and then work out who is going to do what.
It's not foolproof but it does mean they get to see how much work there actually is.
We've had interesting discussions on who gets to decide how often a particular task needs doing, and exactly what is meant by " hoover the hall " - is that just the carpet or does it include removing the dust from skirting board and keeping light fittings free of cobwebs?
I've found I do still do the bulk of it but at least they are more appreciative and obliging when asked to participate.
You do need a discussion about what the task entails, just for the avoidance of doubt , and it may be that you eventually agree that sweeping the crumbs off and a quick wipe over is ok day to day but the every so often, it needs to be done with bleach or whatever.
I completely agree that it should not be your job to organise all this, and if your relationship is in its early years, you need to get this sorted now, otherwise there will be years of resentment.
If DH is working from a list you have created together you might both feel better about it.
It's like creating classroom rules, the idea being that every one has a hand in creating them , they are for everyone's benefit, and crucially, everyone agreed to them, so no grounds for complaining later.

BonjourCrisette · 20/05/2023 10:15

You are both unreasonable and not unreasonable. Yes, your husband should just get on and do the housework and not have to ask what to do. But given that you are unwell and getting the housework done is important and he should be pulling his weight, could you not just text him one list and say 'these things need doing every Saturday'. Maybe stick a reminder on the family calendar if you have one. Then you don't need to keep on asking.

And anti-bac spray is totally unnecessary. A bit of washing up liquid or something and a damp cloth will be perfectly adequate.

EekGoesTheBaby · 20/05/2023 09:43

The bottom line is that he thinks of this as helping you rather than doing his fair share. He will likely never change.

You shouldn't have to do any of the thinking for him. However, to give him the benefit of the doubt, it seems you need to sit down and list out the chores that you both agree need to be done (and to what level). He needs to be doing 75% of everything on that list because you have health problems. Then make another list of things that you think also need to be done (your bare minimum). He needs to be doing at least 25% of that list because married people support each other and he should want to help maintain a living environment that makes you comfortable.

raincamepouringdown · 20/05/2023 09:15

Stop asking him to 'help you'.

Start asking him to do his share around the house you share.

Ask him how he can hold down an 'important' job but can't figure out what needs to be done in his own home and do it with step by step instructions. In writing. Tell him you'll wait for an answer while you stop doing things for him.

Orangello · 20/05/2023 08:59

It's a fair point that standards can be different - the Fair Play also says to agree on a minimum standard when sharing tasks. Like does feeding children mean that you cook a fresh nutritionally balanced meal, or just shove a frozen pizza in the oven? What does 'cleanining the kitchen' really mean? WIll help with discussions when one wants everything sterilized and the other thinks just putting the dishwasher on is all it takes.

CurlewKate · 20/05/2023 08:57

"Yeah but he’s an adult and he asked you to text the list, he’s allowed preferences."

It appears that his preference is that his partner does all the work necessary to make maintain a clean and pleasant living space.

burnoutbabe · 20/05/2023 07:34

Clearly though -clean kitchen means something much more in-depth to the op than her husband who would sweep up a few counter tops and do washing up.

Whereas she may mean
Wash floor
Clean oven inside and out
Etc etc
So if he does his idea he is WRONG

sone sort of master list of what a task involves is probably needed.

PaigeMatthews · 19/05/2023 23:11

TeaKitten · 19/05/2023 22:54

Yeah but he’s an adult and he asked you to text the list, he’s allowed preferences.

But his preference is that his wife organises his chores, like a child rather than a fully functioning adult. His preference means he has no responsibility.

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 19/05/2023 22:58

Well, I don't know tbh.

He is of course an adult and he should not need you to manage him. He lives in the house and should be able to work out what needs doing for himself.

On the other hand, it sounds like he has different standards to you, so if you want him to clean according to your standards or expectations, then I don't think it's unreasonable of him to ask for a list.

I think it also depends on wider questions, like whether you both work full time and share equal responsibility for the household stuff or whether you have the kind of division of labour where he might see you as the person who manages the household and therefore issues the instructions

TeaKitten · 19/05/2023 22:54

bringincrazyback · 19/05/2023 22:36

I think some posters have missed my post clarifying that he manages fine with verbal lists at other times.

Yeah but he’s an adult and he asked you to text the list, he’s allowed preferences.

LittleRedYarny · 19/05/2023 22:47

bringincrazyback · 19/05/2023 22:38

That looks interesting, I might check it out, thanks.

(And @CountZacular I found that article way too relatable. 😄)

There is also a card deck type game you can do as a couple to help divide up chores and assign responsibility. Also loads of resource related to it on Instagram if you search #fairplay

bringincrazyback · 19/05/2023 22:38

LittleRedYarny · 19/05/2023 20:17

OP may I suggest you read Fair Play by Eve Rodsky (and then fling it at your husbands head!)

(apologies if the book has already been mentioned.)

That looks interesting, I might check it out, thanks.

(And @CountZacular I found that article way too relatable. 😄)

OP posts:
bringincrazyback · 19/05/2023 22:36

I think some posters have missed my post clarifying that he manages fine with verbal lists at other times.

OP posts:
bringincrazyback · 19/05/2023 22:34

GrumpyPanda · 19/05/2023 19:57

Voted YABU for the antibacterial spray. Any microbiologist will tell you that all you need for kitchen surfaces is a wipe with warm water and detergent. Are you trying to breed superbugs?Given you're not very specific on the rest of the tasks, there's nothing to tell me they aren't equally over the top.

Nothing about my household regime is 'over the top' given lack of time and my state of health. It's way less than most people do, tbh. And I use anti-bac spray pretty sparingly.

OP posts:
celticprincess · 19/05/2023 21:49

Another here saying text him.

For context, my DD asked me to pick up something specific with the weekly shop this week. I got to the shop and couldn’t for the life of me remember what it was. I have a terrible short term memory for things said to me. Especially if there’s any slight die’s reaction about.

At least if you text him he can’t deny being given the list.

Or do the old fashioned thing and leave a paper list.

TeaKitten · 19/05/2023 21:37

bringincrazyback · 19/05/2023 18:08

Because hygiene. HTH.

Yeah but if you actually wanted to prioritise the ‘hygiene’ over just being right then you’d text him the list. He finds a list easier, you are telling him what you want either way, so just text the list and avoid moaning on here. You married him
knowing exactly what he was like, work together.

Discotek993 · 19/05/2023 21:28

I spent 7 years complaining to DH that he wasn't helping with the Housework and arguing because he couldn't see what needed doing and was always asking for lists and it made me so angry. Turns out surprise he's autistic (we both are) and he needs the list to see it and refer to as that's how his brain works. I made a reusable to-do list with his Housework on it and laminated it and no more arguments and he does more than his fair share now!

Just make the list or do it yourself and stop moaning, you are picking battles that don't need to be picked. Been there, done that

LittleRedYarny · 19/05/2023 20:17

OP may I suggest you read Fair Play by Eve Rodsky (and then fling it at your husbands head!)

(apologies if the book has already been mentioned.)

DeadbeatYoda · 19/05/2023 20:02

Just text him the list.

GrumpyPanda · 19/05/2023 19:57

Voted YABU for the antibacterial spray. Any microbiologist will tell you that all you need for kitchen surfaces is a wipe with warm water and detergent. Are you trying to breed superbugs?Given you're not very specific on the rest of the tasks, there's nothing to tell me they aren't equally over the top.

CountZacular · 19/05/2023 19:35

I’m with you, OP. It’s honestly pathetic any grown adult expecting another adult to write them a list of household chores. You told him - if he needs a list he can write it himself. He’s basically just giving you another chore whilst dodging the rest himself.

But it does sound like you are reaching the end of your tether and I get it. When you have two adults the housework should be halved, but I find a lot of the time it’s just doubled for one party and lessened for the other and really it’s shit.

It reminds me of this article, which I often think about:

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/she-divorced-me-i-left-dishes-by-the-sink_b_9055288

She Divorced Me Because I Left Dishes By The Sink

It wasn’t a big deal to me when I was married. But it was a big deal to her.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/she-divorced-me-i-left-dishes-by-the-sink_b_9055288

bringincrazyback · 19/05/2023 18:08

Timeforchangeithink · 19/05/2023 17:33

The thing is, he doesn't care about housework and you do so why does your standards trumph his? (even though it seems he's a dirty midden). Just tell text him the list.

Because hygiene. HTH.

OP posts:
Orangello · 19/05/2023 18:03

Oh I'd love to just sit on my arse and wait for DH to allocate me a few things to do, while he is responsible for planning and noticing and doing everything else. "Why don't you just text him" - because he lives there and has eyes? Why made her a household manager?

GoodChat · 19/05/2023 17:54

thecatsthecats · 19/05/2023 17:40

My husband was also raised by parents who didn't prepare him to live independently. I had a hodge podge approach from my own parents.

Our way of tackling it for food shopping, for example, it to sit down and write a HUGE masterlist. Absolutely everything you could possibly buy, even if we barely ever need it.

When food shopping comes around, we sit down with the list in turn and add what we want to cook with/need for the house. Takes about 20m total, and the megalist means you can't forget.

We just write down what we need as and when we use it through the week, then when one of us goes shopping (whoever has some spare time) we just buy what's on the list and ask if anyone has any special requests just before we go. Surely that's quicker than poring over a whole master list every week?

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