Do I look pretty?

The word kind has become very loaded in recent years.

It can be a bit of a catch-all, meaning considerate, thoughtful, loving, generous... but also self-sacrificing, putting-oneself-last.

Our society strongly expects all of these from women and girls. Interestingly, we only expect the first few from men and boys - and even those much less than girls. We never expect boys to put others ahead of themselves. Self-sacrifice is only expected of girls.

It's a very strongly gendered expectation in our society. And it's been weaponized against women. It's a powerful tool used to shame and bully women into dropping their healthy boundaries and allowing other people's demands to take precedence over their own reasonable needs.

I now cringe at the word 'kind' and would never use it to my DD. Instead I use more precise words like 'thoughtful', 'considerate', 'good friend', 'fair', 'generous' (generous being applied to emotions, not just things). And I'm clear with her that these behaviours should flow both ways in any relationship. She should expect to be a recipient as well as a giver.

Interestingly, a side-effect of teaching children to expect to receive fair behaviour from friends as well as give it is that they are much more attuned to seeing bullying behaviour from someone else towards a third child as unacceptable, and to stick up for the victim against the bully.

Think about never being told you look pretty / attractive etc. it would be shit. If my dh or a close friend never ever complimented me on my looks, outfit etc once in a while I'd prob be a bit miffed. But it's only one part of who we all are. If children receive 9 comments about their attributes- funny/ kind/ good friend/ loving/ patient/ artistic/ strong etc with one comment about being pretty it's a fairly good balance.

If he keeps laying it on a bit too thick for your liking it’s best you have a word with him to rein it in a bit. There’s telling your children or grandchildren they’re pretty and there’s over egging the pudding so it becomes grating.

Are you not interested in your looks? Being interested in your looks doesn’t have to mean being shallow or air headed. I don’t care what people say every little girl wants to think they’re pretty (even if they’re not). It’s not mutually exclusive to be pretty and clever/smart. Granted I don’t have girls but I would tell my boys they were handsome in fact I still do even as adults.

I am a STEM academic. Our female students are as good looking as any group of young women but they pay variable attention to those looks. Obviously for the most part that is fine and it’s great to watch young women succeed with no thought spared for appeasing men.

But students have periodically shared sad tales eerily similar to the concerns voiced by some PPs, of being groomed or otherwise taken advantage of by men who may have sensed that, quite simply, they are not used to being told they are pretty and not used to thinking of themselves as such. In today’s society I am with PPs who believe that every little girl should be confident that she is pretty. Of course this should be regarded matter of factly. It is background for the strengths and qualities she wishes to cultivate.

Love the idea of swapping out ‘pretty’ for ‘cool’ etc.

I totally get where your coming from OP, it's one of the things I worry about with my DD

I spoke upthread about how my parents were openly critical of my looks. The result of that was that I desperately and cravenly sought approval from men and put up with all sorts of crap because I thought I was lucky to have any attention paid to me. I genuinely did not think I deserved any better and so went out with a series of men who abused me in every way imagineable.

I have also been a people pleaser all my life because I never thought I had value to anyone.

I am 50 and was brought up in an era and environment where I think children were not meant to be overtly praised, because it spoiled them maybe? (I am not from the UK originally so maybe just where I am from).

The result has been that I have consistently sunjugated myself to others. Never stood up for myself. Never thought I was worthy of standing up for myself. It plays out again and again in so many ways in my life.

Love and appreciate your children. have boudnaries- don't spilt them- but ffs be their champions.

Heaven forbid a child should be told they are pretty.

Absolutely. So much so, that if someone says something complimentary to them when they are older, say in their teens, their self-esteem is so low that they are 100% convinced that the person is taking the piss, even if they aren't.

MiL is a very pretty woman and has been all her life (I've seen photos). She is very looks oriented about herself and other people e.g. makes me feel I've let the side down by not making more of an effort with my appearance, constantly commenting on women's weight and looks. I suspect she was told she was pretty a lot as a girl and a teenager and has been admired by lots of men through her life. I also suspect she has relied on this for building self esteem (rather than developing a curious mind, an independent spirit and a wide range of skills, which has limited her life options). That's what I would worry about if a little girl was told she was pretty rather than clever, brave or funny, for example.

Not, not funny at all. There's a phrase 'Many a true word is spoken in jest'.

I know a 4 yr old boisterous boy who when dressed up asks if he looks cool.
Sees it on tv or possibly nursery too.
Not worrisome as he isn't obsessed about it though.
Depends if your daughter is obsessed, if not it's a phase and will pass.

Teasing your kids to toughen them up against future bullying is the worst advice ever and can only come from someone who needs professional help to properly reflect upon the negative aspects of their own upbringing.

Experience.

Not commenting upon something can also make it clear that you can't ask, because you won't like the answer.

I know DP loves me because he says so. I know he does because he hugs me, kisses my forehead and smiles every time I catch his eye. I know he thinks I'm beautiful because he says it and it shines from his eyes when he looks at me. And yet he'll still say it because he wants me to know it very day of my life, even when my hair's a mess, I'm curled up in pain and he's gently applying steroid cream to every part of me because my hands are swollen up like balloons with Psoriatic Arthritis and I can't open the tub to put it over the burning plaques.

I also know that my abusive ex thought I was attractive. Because he said so. He might have hated me by the end, but I'm in no doubt that I was attractive to him.

My mother, though? Nah. I grew up thinking I was ugly. Never asked if she loved me either because I had an inkling that I wouldn't like that answer, either. DD asked her instead when she was five because she had heard the ex shout at me that 'Even your own mother doesn't love you' to attempt to win an argument. Turns out she didn't. Which I knew inside, of course I did, as she'd never said I was pretty or brave or smart or talented or that she was proud of me - but I didn't really need to have it made quite so brutally clear to either of us.

Also OP, asking her grandfather to not call her beautiful isn't going to prevent her caring about her looks from 11-12 onwards.

Unless your dad is seriously over the top, you are overreacting here. You cannot prevent young people from caring about their looks. Everyone does.

You can show her that looks aren't the most important thing about people. But children should definitely be told that they're pretty and beautiful imo

But ALL children should be taught to be kind - or at the very least to think before they speak. I was bullied horrifically in school to the point I was suicidal (not helped by a horrid home life admittedly)...children have got to be taught kindness. There's too much nastiness in the world, nobody ever seems to think of anyone else or think before they speak now. It's not an ideal world and no amount of good parenting will ever eradicate vile people but I do think all children, regardless of gender, should be taught to be kind.

If I am not praised for my looks I feel like this!

In truth I am average, but if someone else around me is told how pretty/beautiful etc they are- I just hear but you aren't!

Even though nothing is said about me.

There was a thread not too long ago where a poster said that her parents never called her pretty or beautiful therefore she’d grown up thinking she was ugly :(

My children both tell me they are pretty, or cute because we make sure to tell them, they do also know that they are kind, clever, brave (well the eldest is) or patient (the youngest), friendly/sensible and all manner of other things because I want them to have that confidence. I grew up being called ugly by my family and I think that has done a lot more damage than being called pretty would have.

As long as your daughter knows she isn't JUST pretty and it's not her only important attribute - in fact kindness is far more important - then being called pretty really won't hurt her.

It’s a phase. My son says ‘do I look handsome?’ Because I tell him he is. I also tell him he’s clever and funny etc etc.

Agree with you, OP. It's really heartbreaking how much a girl has internalised in just five years.

The right answer is always ‘yes darling you look beautiful’

It will be the influence of other kids too. Being a short haired girl at 5 was bloody awful. It was curly and just didn't. Fucking. Grow. And of course, if you don't fit the gender norms kids' parents have indoctrinated them with, they'll pick anything. I was paranoid about looking like a boy for years and years. Well, until I grew a magnificent pair of tits in my late teens. Like pp, I was clever and did well at school, but all I wanted was to be attractive.

My mum never told me I was pretty. It was unfortunate, as the kids in school thought I was ugly and had no qualms in telling me that. I remember asking her once and being told I had nice eyes. 🙄It was actually surprising to look back at photos of me as a child, to see that I was no different to other kids.

I hope I've struck a balance with my dc.

I say to my boys (aged 12 and 10) every single day that they are beautiful. Every day. I never had my parents tell me I looked good- they were usually critical of my looks because I had (and indeed have) a body like a frog. I say every day ' You are beautiful'. I also praise them every day for their kindness and their humour and their everything. I want them to never ever doubt that I as their parent love and appreciate them. I doubted that every day of my life and still doubt it. My mother only afew weeks ago told me i looked like a hobbit. My own father says to me 'should you be eating that?' whe I ordered pizza in a restaurant. I want my children to feel safe in the knowledge that I think they are wonderful.