I feel so guilty - AIBU?

Yayasisterhood · 29/04/2023 18:39

This is a stressful situation but all I can hear is that you run around doing everything for everyone else except yourself. This isn’t a long term plan. You will live a sad and stressful life and the die unless you draw some boundaries and start letting other people deal with their problems. YOUR health and YOUR wellbeing is just as important as your family’s. Why does it get no attention? Why is it that you think you don’t deserve a break but your dad does?

you have to change.

WGACA · 29/04/2023 18:37

Make changes for the sake of your own children, your health and your lovely mum. Get together with a sister and make a plan like the one you mentioned above involving carers, twice weekly day Centre visits and respite care. You can do it!

Daffodil92 · 29/04/2023 18:15

Op I am so sorry. I agree with a PP- your dad is financially abusing your mum. It is HER money and he is watching her (and you!) suffer rather than spending it. He is horrendously selfish. I’d be tempted to let your DH go and talk to him; he may listen.

Original poster

Undermyredumbrella · 29/04/2023 18:09

CarrotCake01 the ideal scenario I personally would like to see is a carer coming in every morning to help mum get washed and ready for the day, they then become known and established so when extra care is needed they are already in place. It would be great to see mum go to the day centre, all day, twice a week. That would then give dad at least two days respite. A few long weekends or few days of respite care in a care home a few times a year would also benefit dad. Then the rest of the time would be left for dsis and I to actually spend time with our parents as a parent/child relationship should be, we could take mum out for lunch or for a drive etc without the added stress of having to remember to do all that we do for them as is the current situation. That would be the best outcome I can think of right now, before mum deteriorates too a point where a care home is the only solution.
Tigofigo I truly believe dad’s biggest fears regarding the money is that if they spend any of it now there may not be enough to pay for mum when she will need to go into a care home. He does often ask me what happens if the money runs out as he is fully aware just how expensive dementia care is. He is also worried he will be left with nothing to live on even though his financial advisor has assured him that won’t happen.
Saz12 You’re right, dad doesn’t spend money on himself, he is quite frugal. He is afraid the money will run out or there won’t be enough to cover care home fees should mum need to go in a home for several years. I think he is hoping we can all muddle through without paying for a carer. As someone else mentioned, I don’t think he realised how much carers charge, like they would do all that for minimum wage or something! He is definitely so very overwhelmed by this awful disease and how draining it is for them both that he has become a bit blinkered to the affects it is having on the rest of the family too. I feel for him so much but it’s so hard repetitively banging your head against the wall and I’m often accused of coming up with madcapped suggestions when all I am doing is trying to offer some suggestions to help eases his life a little. It must be so very difficult for him but would be a million times worse if he didn’t have dsis and I to help and call upon, we literally pull our hair out trying to find solutions to his pain.

OP posts:

OuiLaLa · 29/04/2023 17:29

Op, if the AA goes to your mum and your have poa then is there a reason you can’t use it? It’s not to bolster your dads savings.

Saz12 · 29/04/2023 17:26

Your DF is 80, elderly hinself, and looking after someone who's needs are not that much easier to manage than that of a small child.
Does he worry about money? It doesnt sound like hes spending it on himself, so much as saving it for a rainy day. Does he understand current costs? Could you make him see that the AA is to pay for some of the new needs, that theyd not be getting it if these needs werent costly, its not something theyre given unless extra costs are needed.

Can you try a different angle. That youre worried for him, you know how much he does, but that you cant do any more than you already are, and that you want to start being able to spend some of the limited time you have just chatting and hanging out, not doing any more chores.
I imagine he is weary, lonely, bored anxious... and whilst he's not behavibg well, and likely is manipulative, he probably was disappointed to miss out on his golf (!). Is he maybe just so overwhelmed by his own life that he genuinely didnt consuder yours?

if you could find a way to connect with him over your DM's care it might make it easier to influence him to do the right thing!
So sell DM's trip out on a Wednesday as being respite for him as much as its good for her.
And if he had a carer visit to sit with DM and help her with hair washing, etc on another day, that would allow him a couple hours break.
Be wary of chastising him for allowing too much daytime sleeping or whatever.

But OP, really you deserve a saibthood, not feelings of guilt!

Tigofigo · 29/04/2023 17:25

Babyroobs · 29/04/2023 17:01

As well as all the other money that was her inheritance. It is absolutely abuse that her won money cannot be used for her comfort and to keep her safe.

Show quote history

This. Can you speak to someone who works on the allowance side of things and get them to talk to him to explain what the money is for?

What on earth is he scared of, spending that money? What's his intention for it? Seek first to understand then be understood as the saying goes.

Finally just one of the things you are dealing with would tip someone over the edge, so how you are dealing with them all is remarkable really and not surprised you had a breakdown. Please take care of yourself. You matter too.

OuiLaLa · 29/04/2023 17:21

You are your mums advocate here op and your dad is financially abusive.

it’s not for him to determine the cost/value of things.

can you arrange for the attendance allowance to be paid to you so you can spend it on your mum? An adult social worker might help you here. Try age concern too.

SittingOnTheChair · 29/04/2023 17:19

I told my (stingy) dad that if he didn't start using the AA I would report him for not using it. Then got carers in twice a day and dropped my visits to once a week.

Cruel to be kind.

CarrotCake01 · 29/04/2023 17:15

Aww, I really feel for you, that's all so tough to have to deal with. It's not unreasonable to wish things were a bit different. That's a LOT to be dealing with on a daily basis.

I'm an absolute bugger for trying to stand up to my parents, it's hard at the best of times but your dad sounds like an immovable boulder who has no intention of shifting when it comes to his opinions (and funds.)
In your ideal world, what things would you change if you could? What's your ideal outcome?
(Excluding the unfortunate illnesses that you can't do anything about.)

limoncello23 · 29/04/2023 17:03

You are not being unreasonable and I'm very sorry you're in this position.

Tip-toeing round your dad doesn't seem to be helping as much as you hope it will. Perhaps if your husband wants to go round and tell your dad some home truths, then just let him. Yes it might make things worse in the short term, but I don't think you can just keep doing the same things and hoping that your dad will see sense.

Babyroobs · 29/04/2023 17:01

Babyroobs · 29/04/2023 16:59

Sounds like he is financially abusing your mum especially if he is not allowing her Attendance Allowance to be used for things it needs to be used for like carers to keep her safe.

As well as all the other money that was her inheritance. It is absolutely abuse that her won money cannot be used for her comfort and to keep her safe.

Babyroobs · 29/04/2023 16:59

Sounds like he is financially abusing your mum especially if he is not allowing her Attendance Allowance to be used for things it needs to be used for like carers to keep her safe.

Murdoch1949 · 29/04/2023 16:50

You and your sister need to play hardball with your dad. You need to tell him that you will withdraw your help unless he agrees to spend some money on mum. You should be demanding a daily carer visit to shower, dress, breakfast mum. You need maybe 3 day centre visits as she enjoys them. This will be done from a viewpoint of love for them both, but it is mainly mum who needs her daughters' to step up for her in this way. She must be your priority.

Original poster

Undermyredumbrella · 29/04/2023 16:39

Lillygolightly, thank,you so much for your advice. I think the reason I feel so much guilt is because I acknowledge just how hard it must be for my dad, I just wish he could articulate it in a way which doesn’t make him come across as so heartless and self centred. I know deep down that’s not him, he’s grieving for the loss of the life he knew and at 80 he has developed quite a deep existential fear, he talks about dying a lot these days and is convinced he doesn’t have long left. He worries what will happen to mum if he goes first and maybe he’s hoping to hold on to as much of the money as possible so she can reside in a good care home, he worries a lot about that.
I have spoken to some local card homes and have also spoken to my dad about the possibility of a live in carer at some point.
Btw, the AA is in mums name and is paid directly into her bank account.
I do tell him that mum absolutely needs to go to the day centre and have a carer for mental stimulation more than anything as he does tend to let her sleep a lot and the day centre have told me this can obviously become detrimental and could potentially speed up the progression of the disease.
NurseCranesRolodex we did have a ss assessment last year but they said they couldn’t help as my parents savings are over £23,500. I will talk to dad re looking at care homes.
Thank you so much LittleMonks11, I really appreciate that.
Thank you Mariposista, your poor mum, it really is so much hard work isn’t it and when other family members fail to help that must be extra hard going. You are right, I can’t leave them be. I literally live around the corner, I couldn’t drive by their home knowing they are inside struggling, like you say, that’s so much easier said than done and I wouldn’t forgive myself if something happened. Just today dad popped to the post office to get his papers as he has done every Saturday for years but mum must had completely forgotten where he had gone and on his way back he found her in the driveway looking in their car, thinking he was in it. She could have easily wondered off. Doesn’t bear thinking about.

OP posts:

Original poster

Undermyredumbrella · 29/04/2023 16:22

Thank you so much everyone, your replies have definitely put everything in perspective for me, I was truly feeling like the bad guy here.
It is so hard to step back and look at things rationally when there are so many emotions involved and especially as my dad hasn’t always been like this. He changed when they received my mum’s inheritance, he has became more and more tight fisted over the years following even though they had more money than they ever had in their lives. He would start saying we were after ‘his’ money even though I have never asked for a penny of it. Dh and I have always been financially independent even through harder times, purchased our own home and paid for our own wedding etc, all I got from them as a present was a food mixer but never complained, never asked for anything.
There have been times that I have been desperate for some financial help but have and never would ask my dad.
Since mum’s diagnosis I have seen another shift in his personality which is sad as he was very fun when we were younger, that’s the problem I suppose, he’s always loved the happier times and struggles when the going gets tough, but don’t we all? He is very much weighted down by the responsibilities of becoming a care giver. I have just been round to see them and to take mum out and all he kept saying to me was how he is a carer now and that he has to do ‘everything’ and his life is over. I told him that wasn’t fair, that I know he does a lot but we (dsis and I) do a lot too, he did apologise and admit he was lucky to have us both. He was also saying how it stresses him out so much and that mum doesn’t understand or care how much it’s affecting him. I said that’s not mum, mum was always so kind, it’s the disease. I also told him it stresses ALL of us, not just him and to remember that!
I do think it’s time to gently give him some home truths as hard that will be.
And in answer to some suggesting social workers. I did arrange for social services to come and perform an assessment for my mum but they said because they have more than £23,500 there is nothing they can do to help. Is that the same thing as calling social services? (Apologies for my naivety).
We do have full POA in place, it took me years of nagging to get that as I’m sure he thought we would fleece him dry!!
SistersNotCisters I’m sorry your poor dad went through that at the end of his life, that’s so sad.

OP posts:

gamerchick · 29/04/2023 16:21

I think I'd be tempted to play the game. Get in agreement with sibling. Sit him down and tell him that unless he spends the money your mother has on care for her he's going to be completely on his own and you'll get Social services in to his life. Then let him call your bluff.

It's borderline abusive and he needs to be exposed to outside services.

Mariposista · 29/04/2023 16:19

I am so so sorry OP. I do understand that your dad is in denial that his wife, and your mother now needs extra support and is finding it hard to adapt to how she is now with her condition, but he is being chronically selfish. Your poor mum needs specialised care, and you cannot do everything for her, as much as you want to. My mum ran herself into the ground caring for my gran, with NO help from my uncles. I flew over from my home overseas regularly to help her, but in her last 6 months of life we had help from carers too. It was hard enough with their help, without it, I worried I would be planning two funerals, hers and my mother's.
I don't agree with the PP who say 'just step back and don't help'. You would drive yourself mad with worry about her if you did that, and inevitably she would have an accident, wander off, end up getting ill with an infection or not have her basic needs met if you use leave your dad to it. He needs to be forced to see that she needs helps nd sadly, that is what money is for (you can't take it with you!)
I don't fully know what to suggest - perhaps talking to her GP with your dad present, or a community nurse at home. It sometimes takes a third party. But I am sending you the very best wishes OP. I hope your mum is ok.

LittleMonks11 · 29/04/2023 16:15

You have brought tears to my eyes. Others have helpful advice. Just wanted to send a massive virtual hug. X

NurseCranesRolodex · 29/04/2023 16:07

I'm sorry OP, you must be having a rough time. The long and short of it is your DF is being unkind, unreasonable and abusive to you DM by withholding the means for her care and comfort. Your DH is going to have to pick up the slack in your own family to allow you to push some positive change forward for your Mum. Can you get a social work assessment for DM? Maybe the official nature of it would force DF to accept her needs. You could ask him to sell the house to release your DMs capital that could pay for her private care home. Take him to see a couple of nice local homes to let him know you mean business. It is simply unacceptable for him to neglect her like this, expecting you to take over, it really is OP. Change it before your own health and family break down further.

Lillygolightly · 29/04/2023 16:07

Hi @Undermyredumbrella I have experience of this somewhat, I was my MIL full time carer after her diagnosis of Alzheimer’s. Initially FIL was her carer with help from DH and I and in fairness to FIL he wasn’t at all resistant to getting help and paid care in for MIL, he recognised that he wasn’t a natural carer and for him the help was welcome.

Alzheimer’s is an awful condition and incredibly and increasingly difficult to navigate as it progresses. With this is mind it best that you get these issues dealt with your Dad pinned down as soon as you can.

A few important points that may be useful for you to point out to your dad.

Attendance allowance whilst paid to your dad if he’s the nominated recipient is NOT his money and is not his to hoard. This money and the reason it is paid to him and the only reason that it is, is so that he can use it to spend on things like the day centre, transport to and from the day centre or other appointments, carers, respite etc. He must use this money to assist your mother as that is what it is for!! Not doing so is fraudulent, and he must be made keenly aware of this!!

Secondly if your mother does not get the appropriate care and stimulation that she needs this will only quicken the pace of her decline. Should you mother decline further sooner this will only result in making life much more difficult for him and thus see to it that he will be paying for increasing and additional care much sooner that he would have to do otherwise. If he is so hung up on finances pointing this out might make him understand the financial consequences of his actions if he is failing to relate to them on a needs basis.

Thirdly you need to have a discussion and plan in place for when your mum is at a point of her caring needs being beyond what can be managed safely at home. Care homes are expensive but very necessary and you need to agree at what point will be the right point for your family to consider a care home. He needs to be on board with this and to have thought about it before the time is upon you as it takes time to get these things in place but at the same time Alzheimer’s decline can happen very quickly and things can very easily and quickly become unmanageable.

He won’t want to have this conversation, particularly on the last point but these conversations must happen in order to make sure your mother has the appropriate care that she needs.

Also I just want to point out that living with someone with Alzheimer’s is extremely difficult and I do have a lot of compassion for your dads position because in many ways this will be more difficult for him than for your mother as she will be oblivious much of the time whilst he of course is not. He needs to be as prepared as possible for the road that lies ahead and understand that there will be many more difficult conversations and difficult decisions to be made but that these are necessary and need to be had and made with your mothers best interests at heart but also his too. 💐

JudgeRudy · 29/04/2023 16:00

Undermyredumbrella · 29/04/2023 12:20

I can’t rationalise this in my muddled brain right now and am probably being unreasonable.
I don’t want to drip feed so will give a background for context but sorry if it does dribble on.
So, my parents are both 80. We have always been close and they live around the corner from me.
5 years ago my lovely mum was diagnosed with Alzheimer’s. This disease is cruel, it’s taken away the adult and left a small child in her place. She is doing ok and still remembers us but is losing her Independence day by day.
My dad is not a natural caring type of man and struggles with everything but does ok. I go round to theirs most days.
I do all of mums paperwork, her hospital and doctors appointments (she has some other health issues), I order and collect her prescriptions, I change and wash their bed sheets, cut mums nails, take mum to and from a day centre once a week and just generally there for them.
Up until last year I was doing all of the above and all of their washing and drying, washing and drying mums hair several times a week etc until I had a mini breakdown over it, needed time off from my part time job as a PA to a disabled lady and wore myself out. Dad is in good health and as much as he didn’t want to do it, I left him the responsibility of their washing and drying and I got a hairdresser in to wash and blow dry mums hair once a week.
My sister, who also lives nearby comes in twice a week, one of those she cleans as she has her own cleaning business and therefore all of the equipment etc and happy to do it.
My parents have a LOT of money invested but my dad refuses to inject any of this into helping my mum even though most of it is inheritance from her parents! Mum also receives attendance allowance which just builds up, hardly touched even though it needs to be used.
Last year I insisted on getting a carer in. The carer has been coming in once a week, for an hour to sit with mum to give dad a little break. He feels the £22 per hour is too much and let her go this week, even though I had told her we need her soon to help mum shower in the mornings!
Mum was also going to a day centre for 3 hours, once a week. I would take and collect her, she loved it even though each week she would forget where she was going and get a little anxious about it but was fine once there as they are wonderful with her. This was £55, again dad said this was expensive so ended it! He then moaned continuously since saying he never gets a minute to himself!! I insisted mum goes back to the day centre as he was letting her sleep on and off all day which is so bad for her, the day centre is good for her brain activity. So a few weeks ago I started taking her back on a Wednesday afternoon 12.30-3pm. At £55 for the afternoon and £7 for a cooked from scratched meal dad thinks this is a rip off, constantly moans.
I am constantly stressed o because of my parents.
The last 6 years have felt like I am wading through concrete. I have had 5 years of school refusal with my (now) 17 year old son, it was so very stressful every morning, the school or GP never helped, he would scream every moaning and say he wanted to kill himself. All the school would do is threaten me with fines, they promised to help but never delivered. I eventually found a counseller myself and things have been better since he left school.
My 15 dd is on a waiting list for an adhd assessment as she too struggles at school and I am forever having SEND meetings etc. My dc are my priority but my dad always moans about them and tells me I do way too much for them and that I am a ‘soft touch’. He seems to think that I should dedicate my time to him and my mum and let my kids get on with it which winds me up something senseless as I brought my dc into this world and whilst I am alive I will always be there for them but dad seems to thinks the roles should be reversed when it comes to him - he has never really done much for me over the years tbh.
We then lost my mil 3 years ago during Covid, she had suffered greatly from bowel cancer and her death was just awful.
Then, last year, I lost my beloved ddog, he was the light of my life and kept me going and I am still grieving so much for him. We now have a rescue, we love him dearly but he is very hard work due to his past history, we are working on him but dad thinks we should give him up, that he takes up too much of my time.
So, basically things have been a tad shit, every day shit I know but it has left me with a lot of struggles.
For decades I have struggled with a functional gut disorder and anxiety/depression, these have all reared their ugly head over the last few years. I now have daily, and very controlling, digestive issues and dispute endless tests and following a strict diet and medication etc I am very much struggling. You can also thrown in the wonderful perimenopause (I am 50) and I can honestly say that I am feeling like a bag of crap every.single.day!
My dad is fully aware of this but doesn’t give a damn tbh. Every time I try to talk about my health issues he changes the subject (usually about him).

Anyhow, one thing my dad goes on about all the time is how much he would like to go back to playing golf, something he did a lot before mum’s diagnosis.

He recently bumped into an old golfing buddy and they agreed to meet up for a game one Wednesday afternoon . I said this was great as mum would be at the day centre and I can pick her up etc to give him the full afternoon.
He rang me up yesterday sounding very upbeat, said he’d arranged to go golfing this coming Wednesday. He then went on to say that he would be leaving at 8.15am (mum and I don’t leave for the day centre until 11.30 when I come over). I said to him how is that going to work? You can’t leave mum on her own for nearly 3 hours (she will stress and panic as her memory is literally 5 minutes long), he then went quiet and said he hadn’t given it any thought. I had him on loud speaker and dh was home. My dad proceeded to put on this quiet, little lost boy/woe is me voice saying that he’d have to ring an cancel. I asked him why he didn’t check with me to see if was convenient for me and that he knows the mornings are not good for me (my digestive issues are so bad in the mornings and I need to be at home and near a toilet, I also have to take dd to the bus stop and walk the dog all bloody difficult when you feel as rough as hell), he said he didn’t give it any thought but sounded so crestfallen so automatically I felt awful. I said why don’t we see if the carer can come back for Wednesday mornings from 8-10.30 I can then get there at 10.30 and take over. He said absolutely not, he’s not laying out £22 per hour and if I can’t do it he’ll ring my dsis and get her to do it then he’ll pay her and she can clean. I said she works full time, you know that and has clients to commit too, she can’t just give up work. He said he would still ask her (I checked with her and she said absolutely not).
My husband was fuming (my dad winds him up with his tight fisted behaviour and sees how much this is stressing me out) and wanted to go round and have a word which has just stressed me even more because I can’t be having a big family upset on top of it all because my dad will never see that he could be unreasonable in all of this and will just get stroppy with me, causing me more anxiety.

I am honestly so bloody worked up over this now. I feel so guilty that my dad had an opportunity to some free time and I’ve said no to helping out.
I have tossed and turned all night but I am also angry that he has £400 fucking grand in the bank and refuses to spend any on getting help in for my mum.

I feel between them, my work, my kids, my dh etc I have a million plates spinning in the air and am ready to let them all come crashing down.

I know an elderly couple who were in a very similar situation. The wife had dementia really needed full time care. Husband resented having carers/equipment in the home but was unable to adequately care for her himself. He turned carers away saying they weren't needed. He banked all the disability related benefits. The adult children tried there best but all he wanted was an army of workers to whom he would delegate tasks. Happy to have someone clean, happy to have them do laundry, personal care for mum etc. He would instruct one child to look after mum whilst the other was a glorified taxi service for supermarket runs. Refused to go at tea time or weekends. Accepted but complained about online grocery deliveries (paid by the adult children) but would not make a regular list for others to fetch.
Mum became shabbier and thinner. She had toilet accidents and frequent uti due to dehydration (making the dementia worse)
Sadly, in the end the children raised a Safeguarding concern and ultimately the courts protected her by putting her in a care home where she picked up and enjoyed the company.
Maybe you are going to have to take this route. Do you and your siblings agree what would be best for your mum? Does your dad have any idea what care homes cost.
I heard an elderly man say I'm not paying £20 for a carer because that's what the forklift driver got! I think a lot of older men feel these jobs are the lowest of the low ....even though they're incapable of doing them.

Catshaveiteasy · 29/04/2023 15:53

Your post is heart rending. My parents were in a similar situation for years. My dad would be the first to admit he's not a natural caregiver but he's a decent, honest and caring person and looked after my mum properly until she went into a home. They had the money and he used it to make sure she wasn't left alone at home once she was no longer safe to be left. In his case, he paid for a cleaner and gardener, rather than carers, which my mum objected to while she still could. It gave him a full day out a week.

You need to involve social care as your mother deserves better and it can't all fall to you. To deny her care when he has the money is abusive and cruel - to you and your sister as well as her.

flexigirl · 29/04/2023 15:50

Your dad is a selfish prick and because of your good heart , you are enabling his behaviour , which is escalating. You can't possibly carry on like this. You are obviously an amazing daughter but you need to withdraw so your dad doesn't use you like he currently is. When he's refusing to shell out xyz to make both yours AND your mums life better and easier, all he is thinking is why pay for it when you will come and do it. He's being a selfish mean bastard and you should call him out on it . I do speak from experience and I was the only carer for my gran, on top of caring for my own profoundly disabled daughter 24/7
Gran had all her marbles but was refusing care ( because I can do it for her and she didn't want to pay either )
I ended up telling her that if she didn't get carers in she would have to go into a home. It worked and she loved having carers to boss about and be at her beck and call. I think you will have to have a meeting with your sister , talk it over then both present it to your dad then step back . I know it will be hard, but you are literally fast tracking yourself into an early grave. I really do feel for you

saoirse31 · 29/04/2023 15:49

So sorry for you op. It seems to me that as your dad is not willing to spend either your mum's inheritance or her current benefit entitlements on her care you may need to get social services in or seek legal advice. Is it possible that what he's doing is financial abuse even if he's possibly unaware of it,? Either way, it's disgusting that he will not use her own money to care for her.

Hopefully you and your sister can work together to reach a solution.

Ignore what he says about you doing too much for your children, that's pure rubbish, and may be from a place of guilt or jealousy in his eyes. I think if your mam was in the whole of her health you and your sister know what she would think.

I hope you and your sister can manage to get your mother what she needs. The kind of silly thing is, I'd fully endorse him going off for a days golfing once a week because however he's acting re money, it would be good for him once your mother's taken care of.

Best wishes