Reasonable adjustments

Just try and bring back consideration for others rather than just rights.

We need to bring back people remembering alongside rights come responsibilities.

I think (hope!) it'll happen.

As previously explained, having a tall person sit in front of you doesn't impact most people's experience in the same way that a group of people making noise over a performance does. Anyone with children has had to put up with a taller person sitting in front of their kids and there is almost always a way to sit at an angle etc that largely mitigates the issue. It's almost impossible to mitigate against unwanted noise in the same way.

I do take exception to the implication that everyone is desperate to segregate disabled people. This absolutely isn't the case and I think it's useful to remember that most disabled people wouldn't make noise during a theatre performance and a significant group of disabled people really really struggle with others making noise near them during a show. It is also important to remember that people without a disability can go on to develop Alzheimers which can cause them to make noise and thus be better suited to attending a relaxed showing and of course parents with young children and babies could also attend these performances.

I guess my point is that this is fundamentally about balancing everyone's wants and needs and it isn't as simple as saying it's the disabled Vs everyone else. It makes sense to separate out groups with competing needs where we can so we can best meet everybody's needs and make the theatre as accessible as possible for the most people. A form of inclusion that prevents others from attending theatre isn't real inclusion.

This is the kind of reason I don't go to cinemas anymore. I know I can watch at home without having to worry about the movie being spoiled, or missing parts due to noise. Things go to streaming so fast now. Most of the time it's fine but you just never know.

@Choconut it pisses people off but they don't ask for all the tall people to go to a special tall person event because they're blocking the view of people

This is why I wonder if clear terms an conditions would help so it's less of an individual decision for the staff.

But this is where people/ companies get accused of being ablist and discriminatory etc.
I remember a news report about a woman claiming she was thrown out of the cinema for breastfeeding. She was ranting about how discriminatory it was and she was entitled to breastfeed etc etc. Anyway turns out she was asked to leave due to the fact her baby didn't stop screaming for the first 20 mins of the film. Nothing to do with breastfeeding. Imagine a cinema trying to throw out a person with autism because they made noise etc? They'd be piled on. So I'm not sure what the solution is. Just try and bring back consideration for others rather than just rights.

They they go to the media and get horrendous abuse

They do do accessible showings but just nowhere near enough of them. I have disabled DC and we do everything other children do but with a firm boundary of not hindering everyone else's experiences.

Then it’s up to the staff to remove people. They need to understand that they either have to follow the rules and book the correct session that meets their needs, or risk being removed for being disruptive.

Why the first showing a few days a week?

Sadly even when cinemas do have relaxed/autism friendly/ mother and baby showings people still go to the standard showings because its "their right" etc. I've had a Saturday night 18 rated film ruined by a mother and baby. The baby screamed constantly. When people complained she shouted that she was allowed to be there and told everyone to fuck off. So again it's people having no consideration and just shouting about their RIGHTS.

I have had this at the cinema and it did spoil my enjoyment. Of course I didn't complain as I didn't want to look like a knob.

Cinema is easier to fix, as multiple showings. maybe make the first showing a few days a week a relaxed one (including mothers with crying babies)

A good apology is that supermarkets now do quiet hours.

These are designed for anyone who needs to attend the supermarket when it's quiet and don't want to use the alternative home delivery service.

I love this service because not all disabled people (or even NT people) who struggle with loud environments wants to stay home.

It's a reasonable adjustment.

What wouldn't be reasonable is a load of service users and caters turning up with rattles etc to entertain them and trying to play some kind of disability top trump.

This is akin to attending a theatre and creating noise.

The issue - IMO - is that as a society we have become very entitled and self absorbed in our own needs we forget how that impacts on others.

Obviously in some ways that has been beneficial.

But in many it actually becomes detrimental. We've forgotten as a society how to police ourselves in public. How to ensure what we do doesn't impact on the enjoyment of others and tend to think our own needs trump those of others.

This has gone along with expectations of behaviour being lowered. (One example I can think of is an adult telling me teens couldn't sit for half an hour poolside in silence at a swim gala. I did ask how they thought these teens copes with school day in and day out!)

If you don't like dogs - don't go to a dog friendly cafe.

If you don't like noise - don't go somewhere noisy.

If you can't be quiet and sit still - don't go somewhere that requires you to do.

Reasonable adjustments are necessary to allow those with disabilities to be included in society.

They aren't intended to be incorrectly quoted as a reason to behave as you want in public at the detriment to others enjoyment of that public space.

Sorry I meant you should have complained during the break

It’s badly organized OP. The vocal noises are fine but the sound producing equipment is absolutely not. I should have complained during the break and asked them to move you.
It would be preferable for this group to choose a relaxed performance if there was any, not all venues did them. However a relaxed performance means that people can make vocal noises, go around a bit and not all lights are switched off but it doesn’t mean chaos and definitely not using shakers.

Many tall people try and minimise their impact though. (Obviously yes yes some don't etc etc). My grandfather was 6ft7. He would only book back row seats or end of aisle seats (so he could lean out etc). He would often turn down events if he couldn't get a seat he thought was appropriate. Was that fair for him? No. But he was being a considerate person. This is what is lacking in society generally now. Just a bit of consideration for others. It's always about rights. "It's my right to be there" etc. I totally get that people do have "the right" to be there. But sometimes just thinking about something a bit more and how you can be a tiny bit more considerate would go a long way. And that applies to everyone. Tall, short, overweight, thin, disabled, abled, absolutely everyone.
Same as my grandad trying to get a back row seat as much as possible, maybe if you know you/ who you're going with will make lots of noise just see if there's a way to minimise disruption. Whether that's a different relaxed show, a different seating area etc. It's worth just asking and seeing what choices is available.

I agree with PPs. My issue is with the group organisers, noise makers are completely inappropriate in a theatre performance which isn’t labelled as “relaxed”.

I agree with another PP, decisions like this made by presumably non disabled adults regarding disabled people are doing disabled advocacy a real harm.

I am disabled (enough to qualify for the Severe Disability Premium benefit 😁) and my DS has autism.

We couldn’t have coped with the rattles near us, it would have been excruciating (shoutout to PP who mentioned it being against the rules 😆) .

Whose disability takes precedence? Or, rather than grading disability, which in my mind is an appalling idea, we do offer Relaxed Performances and Quiet ones too, on a regular basis. Keep the majority of performances for anyone else.

And keep throwing out the drunk eeejits. Mainly so I can watch TikToks of such events with Benny Hill music in the background.

How many performances of this show are there in total?

It's a tricky one, I think it's great that musicals are accessible, and if they enjoyed the performance than bloody brilliant I genuinely think that's fantastic. However if it's wildly distracting to others then it's not a reasonable adjustment.

People have often been asked to leave musicals I've been at for singing or talking loudly, I know that in this case it's not people consciously making a noise so it's different, but the effect on others in the audience is the same. There should be accessible shows or something similar, I think we've entered this space where yes of course everyone should be able to access the arts but similarly there's a reasonable expectation when you buy a ticket that you'll actually be able to hear what's going on, that's not unreasonable. What if others in the audience had sensory issues etc too, could be very distressing and distracting for them.

Agree with this.
Alternatively if we decide that ‘regular’ performances are unregulated with respect to audience noise/ participation , including the drunken women singing, then there must be the ‘quiet’ alternative.

I have people with different special needs. I think of reasonable adjustments as things that help the disabled person participate without inconveniencing others.

In a noisy restaurant, I ask for a quiet table out of the way when booking, for the hard of hearing person. If I then find a loud party next to us or loud music above us, I will ask to be moved to a quieter spot. I don't ask them to move someone else.

An autistic person might need some adjustments but they shouldn't be unduly imposing on someone else. If my child can't handle the environment, they are not ready for it and they don't go there. That means I don't go there.

I don't think anyone who has to make noise during a performance should be there. They impose on others who have paid to enjoy the show. Rather, there should be special shows put on that allow them to be louder than would normally be expected. That way they are accommodated by being able to participate without causing distress for others.

So in your workd, Op everybody booking tickets would now have to be asked if anybody in their group has a disability and if so will that cause a noise disturbance for others? Then they are told they must attend a different performance? Frankly, I think that's disgusting and we would back to the days of segregation. I have been to numerous theatre performances and there's been a member of the audience making noise during the performance. It can't be helped and most people are understand. I'd rather that than the people who treat musicals like a sing along.

Someone being tall you can generally work around. If you are particular short or it particularly bugs you then you can book seats at the front of a section to start with and be confident the issue won’t arise. If you bring a child (or are extra short yourself) you can get a cushion. Seats are generally a little bit offset/you are not looking straight on at the stage so you can find a position in your seat that lets you see around someone fairly well.

Noise you can’t really adjust for yourself at all. If someone else is being noisy in the immediately surrounding seats and you want to listen to the performance you also have to listen to them. Also it isn’t one tall person blocking/partially blocking the view for 1-2 people max. It’s one noisy person disturbing likely a couple of dozen people around them to varying degrees. I don’t really think it’s totally comparable. I’m 5’6” (so hardly massive)and am yet to sit behind someone so tall and broad that I can’t see the performance pretty well regardless. Certainly better than in some of the restricted view seats.

If shakers etc are needed, I wonder if the outing has been booked for the benefit of the service users, or the staff. There's been a few cases of family's questioning what the service users money is being spent on, but care providers get away with it.

I am disabled and this would have seriously stressed me out. Instead of relaxed performances which seems to annoy so many people I would prefer quiet performances where there's no kids or sweets or crisps,.just people who want peace to enjoy what they're seeing.