Believing in ghosts

I had only had this once. We were travelling overseas and had pre-booked a hotel in the US. It looked lovely from the photos, a small place, very boutique. We arrived, checked in, went to the room and something felt off, I just felt incredibly sad and uncomfortable. I couldn't have slept in there, being in there in the daytime was bad enough.

I told by OH sorry I couldn't stay there and we had to leave. He thought I was having a moment and thought it all very odd.

I was curious after leaving, and did some research. A murder had taken place in that room.

I'm not even a believer, but physical things like walls, floors, ceilings, are made of materials, and materials absorb.

Some of get a feeling of an atmosphere when we entering a room where people have had an argument or something good or bad has just happened. Not everyone feels it, but some people feel it very keenly. Perhaps it's body language, perhaps it's energy, but it is something intangible and perhaps hard to explain.

There is no way of capturing that atmosphere on camera, but it doesn't mean it's not there.

My late DM, my DB and me all feel ‘atmospheres’ (whatever they are) very strongly. It’s an immediate reaction to a place as soon as I go into a building, room etc and really powerful. The saying ‘You could cut the atmosphere with a knife’ describes it exactly. My DMs most memorable one was when we went for a picnic and sat by a lovely bridge. DM said she wanted to have it somewhere else and we packed up and moved. It turned out that the bridge had collapsed during initial construction, killing a lot of the builders. She said an unbearable heaviness and sadness. Whenever I visit York I feel depressed and miserable despite loving everything about the city in theory - all the history, architecture, picturesque streets, fab shops and places to eat. I only go if I have to despite it being nearby. I’d love to know why we sense these things,

What legitimate research around ghosts is being conducted that the mainstream scientific community is 'refusing to accept'?

For those enjoying the 'ghost' stories, I have another.

A week before Christmas I was walking home from a concert. It was dark and I was in a part of town full of Georgian crescents and terraces.

Walking up a side street I passed two ladies chatting outside a pub, Christmas atmosphere inside and full of drinkers. At the end of the side street is a T junction onto a busier road. A young man with a back pack crossed the side road at the T junction. Following a short distance behind him was a woman. She was wearing what I can only describe as Victorian riding dress, floor length black taffeta gown with a fitted black coat over and a 'top hat' style thing with a veil. She passed a few feet in front of me and walked on to a set of steps up to a terrace. She picked up the front of her skirt and climbed the steps, the back of her dress trailing up the steps behind her. She looked so amazing in period costume on the old steps under a period street lamp that I wanted to take her photo. I wasn't brave enough to ask. Seeing her skirt trailing up the steps was so incredible that I plucked up courage to run on to the next set of steps up to the terrace...about 20 metres on. I thought I'd ask if I could take a photo under the light. I suppose a minute, not much more passed before I got to the top of the steps.

I assumed she'd been to a fancy dress party or some kind of Victorian carol evening. I was worried she'd think I was odd about the photo but it was such a good opportunity and I have an Instagram page about the local area so it would be amazing for that.

Anyway, I got to the top of the steps. And she wasn't there.

I've been thinking of this overnight, especially the matter of gaining evidence.

Might be unrelated and I'm sure some clever people will have a ready answer, but are atmospheres also something that it's impossible to catch evidence of.

Some of get a feeling of an atmosphere when we entering a room where people have had an argument or something good or bad has just happened. Not everyone feels it, but some people feel it very keenly. Perhaps it's body language, perhaps it's energy, but it is something intangible and perhaps hard to explain.

There is no way of capturing that atmosphere on camera, but it doesn't mean it's not there.

Bees can see ultraviolet light - most humans can't. It doesn't mean that the bees are wrong, or that the UV light doesn't affect everyone.

Same with ghosts I reckon. Some of us see them, some don't. And they are like those Magic Eye pictures - once you've seen one, you are tuned into how to do it, whether you know it or not.

Of course, it's currently not yet provable - but science is improving all the time. The main problem is actually how the scientific community refuses to accept research findings that challenge the mainstream, and denigrate the researchers who publish it, even if they have a Nobel Prize. So it stifles scientific progress in certain areas.

Meantime people still believe in SSRIs in the face of all the evidence.

GarlicGrace Thanks for this. It’s fascinating. There’s so much to learn about the brain. I absolutely love paranormal stories and films like Contact. Im hoping that sentient alien life is found in my lifetime.

gegs73 and FlyingSparks. I don’t think this theory explains lots of paranormal events though.

We have lots of odd things, like unexplained noises, things falling, etc. I call it the friendly local poltergeist. All can be explained by, 'it must have been precariously balanced and finally fell for no reason', 'the bang from the bathroom must have been a door or something fell even though nothing to see', etc. I don't find it at all scary, but we do look at each other sometimes and think what was that this time. I don't know if it happens more in our house than other people's but it is quite a regular thing.

Correction, You THINK ghosts are real. I don’t .

I love that, @MedievalMadness, and the related experimental work with 'split brain syndrome', examining people who've had the halves of their brain surgically separated (to treat extreme epilepsy). The theory of bicameral mentality proposes that ancient peoples didn't "consciously think" as we do, perceiving messages from their right brain as direct communication from the gods.

I'm not sure that theory holds 100% true, but it does make a lot of sense. Nowadays, we use different words to describe such things - instinct, gut feeling, spidey sense, having "the muse", being in flow - and, if we don't pray, we meditate, journal or get in touch with nature to achieve the same things.

So-called Third Man Factor was put forward in relation to extreme circumstances, but there are zillions of examples both life-threatening and mundane. A few people in the King's Cross fire "heard" or "knew" they should head further down, ignoring the official advice to go up towards ground level.

They tried to get others to follow them; those who did, survived. This is easy to explain from a distance - most of us know fire travels upwards, even if we've never actually discussed it, and regular commuters would have noted the staff doors & service tunnels, even if they'd never consciously noticed them. But in the emergency, those people "just knew" and, crucially, paid attention to what they knew.

It's what Gavin de Becker talks about in The Gift Of Fear.

I've had what I'd describe as massive posters appearing in my mind, telling me to take some urgent course of action, and I do "sense" various deceased relatives at times when their feedback would be welcome - and not (cheers, Dad, stay dead ... ) Also, I write. I never believe it's going to happen but, once I've started, my "writing voice" kicks in and comes up with stuff I hadn't deliberately thought about for one moment. Some people might consider that a spirit, and it is in a way - all coming from my own 1300 grams of squishy head organ, though.

It's a pity that fans of the supernatural here have been so angered by alternative explanations! I love ghost tales. My interpretation might be different from theirs, but why can't we explore the possibilities?

😂😂😂 100% with you!

Boring!!! I was rather enjoying the ghost stories.

I was listening to a programme on radio 4 the other day called ‘All In The Mind’ and there was a section on something called Third Man Syndrome. I can’t add a link but if you Google, I think this sounds a really feasible explanation for many ghost sightings and hearing someone calling your name. I’d never heard of this till now and it’s fascinating.

For me it sounds a rational explanation as to why we see and hear recently dead friends, family, pets or feel an unseen presence. If it’s a response to extreme stress and only seems to happen in the worst circumstances, then bereavement is right up there as a possible trigger.

It was suspected earlier but Erastothenes proved it 2200 years ago by measuring shadows in Egypt at the same time in different locations. You can look it up on Google fgs. 🙄

I am interested actually, not sure why you think that I wouldn't be. There aren't any ghost photographs or videos that don't have completely reasonable explanations though. Please feel free to prove me wrong though...

That post didn’t read correctly as part of my sentence was missing but I really can’t be arsed to correct it now.

Goodnight all.

The ancient Greeks knew the earth was round but critically they proved it categorically by experiment before they claimed it to be so

What a load of utter tosh. It was a concept first. A theory. They didn’t know, they guessed based on The science came later.

I'm not aware of a single ghost photo or video over the years that has ever been released that hasn't been shown to have a normal explanation

Of course you wouldn’t, why would you when you have no interest in the subject? If you were even slightly interested you’d very easily find them for yourself.

Can you point me to any footage or photographs at all of ghosts or spirits that are 'unexplained'?

I'm not aware of a single ghost photo or video over the years that has ever been released that hasn't been shown to have a normal explanation.

The ancient Greeks knew the earth was round but critically they proved it categorically by experiment before they claimed it to be so.

@GarlicGrace ’Spastic’ was used to describe physical disability, but it became an insult, so was dropped by charities and health professionals.

Delusional is being used in a similar way- a medical term used as an insult.

And you think it’s the recipients of this who have a poor opinion of mental disorders? 🤦‍♀️

Millions of people throughout history have believed an awful lot of things that we know aren't true

To be perfectly clear, I am not talking about belief, I am talking about actual experiences of unexplained phenomena for which there is plenty of evidence including footage, photographs and eyewitness. Science may not currently have a way of explaining things we do not yet understand and until it does, there will be people who scoff and belittle the people who have seen evidence as the evidence will not be good enough at the moment.

Rather similar to the times before science was able to prove the earth was in fact round, the earth moved round the sun and that gravity was created by the earths orbit.

I think it’s foolish to dismiss people’s experiences when they are so en masse.

Well I suppose it’s because words are important.

And terms like delusional are not being used in the medical sense.

Ive never seen a ghost, but I know rudeness when I see it.

don’t see why you need to belittle people who have experienced things they can’t understand.

Fwiw- I think there has to be a rational explanation for many of these things, but it could be an environmental reason rather than an issue with someone’s perception. And even then, the human brain is amazing and not fully understood.

remember that photo of the dress that divided people between those who thought it was black and blue vs white and gold? These people weren’t deluded- just average people.

Not really though. Purple sky dragons are just as unlikely as ghosts. 😂

Millions of people throughout history have believed an awful lot of things that we know aren't true. That's a really weak argument from popularity.

I'm going to assume your position isn't that people who believe in ghosts are more 'broad thinking' than people who just want some actual evidence before they believe that the dead can communicate with the living but only in selective and totally unprovable ways?!

I have absolutely nothing to gain by convincing anyone and that's not my intention.

Yes, lived experience is anecdotal evidence but the two terms are interchangable and in my mind neither carries more weight.

I've never suggested the thing in my house is supernatural. Merely unexplained.

The reason I've not tried to capture it is twofold. Firstly, it's not a major player in our lives and secondly, if we find out it's the outside light reflecting on the cat flap (we have neither a cat or an outside light so it's not that), then the mystery is gone like a pulled cracker.

Honestly, @OlympicProcrastinator, the use of logical analysis is the opposite of "a distinct lack of broad thinking".

The difference between believing in purple sky dragons and ghosts is quite obvious to anyone with half a brain.

The reason people believe is because millions of people, throughout the world and through history have had these experiences both individually and collectively. People who have these experiences come from all walks of life. There are no collective experiences of seeing purple dragons.

Now there may be many explanations other than ‘ghosts’ but these are still peoples very real, lived experiences. To dismiss them all as people with mental Illness or belittle others as delusional shows a distinct lack of broad thinking and is more about ones of feelings of moral superiority than any actual critical thinking of your own.

Well, looks like the non believers have shouted loudest & are putting everyone else off posting now, so I'll sign out & leave @ColonelDax etc to it.