Diane Abbott

No, I’m not, although it’s predictable that at this point any disagreement (even slight) with a doctrinal viewpoint is seen as ‘trolling’. That’s the level of disbelief that someone can think differently these days - ‘they must be trolling’ 🙄 I mean why even use a discussion forum if things are so clear cut to you?

And it means we can state it is not a problem in the way other things are problems. I’m not going to apologise for not thinking ‘racism against people of Irish descent’ is anything like racism experience by black peoples or Middle Eastern people. If that’s ‘controversial’ then it shows how we’ve lost the plot to be honest.

Definitely trolling, not even being consistent in their own argument.

So we can dismiss anything that “doesn’t happen anymore” despite its long lasting effects on the person and the race that person comes from?

I have to assume you’re trolling at this point

Well you would. I’ve said before, any kind of ‘shades of grey’ or context/perspective is just called ‘minimising’ now, by people for whom those things are inconvenient.

However, the real problem is the focus on differences rather than what we have in common.

I still don’t understand how this happened but I wonder if it was created by racists who didn’t want to be seen as similar to others. When that happens we see things entirely as a white phenomenon ( white flight, etc.) whilst failing to recognise the dreams, desires, ambitions and value system of others - racism at its finest.

I think there is, as in, I think some groups are for more likely to experience racism, and worse racism, than others. Can you really compare ‘racism against white people’ to racism against black people? And pretend they’re equally as damaging? Really?

Just don’t reply then no need for theatrics.

You're either on the wind up, grossly misinformed or just a very unpleasant person. Either way, I'm not going to waste my time engaging with you any more and I'd politely suggest that others do likewise.

@Socialdistancechampion

yes

We either call out all racism or no racism. There is no hierarchy of oppression.

@Coffeeandbourbons

i think you are minimising some things I’m afraid.

That's hardly comparing like for like.

Not any more. Times change, thankfully. The shocking treatment of black people however has not changed.

What racism? Is this the equivalent of sexism against men, which mumsnet posters seem adamant doesn’t exist because ‘it doesn’t work that way around’? I’m white and English and have never experienced anything I would call racist, nor would I have the arrogance to compare it to Diane Abbott’s experiences if I had.

But the Irish have had that fear

It’s clear that those comments are not as bad as the worry of having your children strip searched by the police, or your son attacked by a racist mob. You can only compare it to say one is far more ‘minor’ than the other.

Stamer needs to kick the racist out.

Racism isn't an either or situation. Just because one party has experienced it one way doesn't mean others don't experience it in other ways.

It's become fashionable to insult the British at the moment - specifically white English people. Whilst it is in no way comparable in terms of the historic and systemic oppression other groups have experienced there is an undercurrent of racism to it and, as with Jewish and Traveller racism, it's almost expected that the recipients just take it because they're white. It's still racially motivated.

Fwiw and to remove any doubt I'm not talking about the rightful holding to account that is happening in terms of colonialism I'm talking about the overt racism that is now taking place quite publicly across many platforms.

*lived not lives

@Coffeeandbourbons

well, certainly Irish travellers experience it on a scale far beyond anything acceptable by any other group

Irish descent certainly experienced it during the 80s bombings

They certainly experience the casual racism of comments about the famine, etc

But do you think you can accurately evaluate someone’s experience of racism from your own perspective? Isn’t that reductive?

There are times when I read something written by a POC about their experience of racism and think that incident, when isolated could be viewed from many perspectives, but when seen in the context the person lives in and their lives experience of racism, I can see that it is part of the picture of how racism plays out in society.

Isnt the same true for other groups? There cannot be just one manifestation of racism else it wouldn’t be shared across class, background, geographical distinctions within one community.

Of course they can compare them, and of course they will be different, but one doesn't negate the other.

I was working with a lady of Irish descent - not even Irish, mind you - and a younger colleague spent a whole morning pestering this woman asking if she had any relatives in the IRA, did she eat potatoes with every meal, and what did she think about Gerry Adams. How is that not racism? It may be different to Diane Abbott's experience but who is to say that it is inherently better or worse?

Yes but was it racism?

I almost feel like banging my head on something at this stage.

I have to 🙄 at the ‘Irish descent’ poster who just phoned in LBC to express her horror at DA saying Irish people don’t suffer racism like black people do. I mean, really? Are we going to pretend people of Irish descent - not even Irish, just ‘Irish descent’ - can compare their everyday experiences to those of Diane Abbott or black people in general?

@loislovesstewie

oh that is awful. That poor child. Never heard of this on internet or anywhere which is shocking

Sorry, problem with phone, I'll continue.
Irish and other minority groups have been historically treated very badly in the USA. They might not have had to sit at the back of the bus but we're subjected to other forms of abuse and inequality.
Hope she read about the young, Jewish autistic boy in Las Vegas who has had a swastika carved on his back by others. I suspect she hasn't.

I also think that she ought to understand that while Jews, travellers Iris