Diane Abbott

I've read about protests in Israel about the racism towards black Jews, I think mainly Ethiopian?

Jewish…people have also been persecuted over the centuries, but not in the way Black African/Asian heritage people have.

Are you for real?

This is so pathetic about David Baddiel. A long, long time ago he did blacked up to mock a footballer. It was wrong then and wrong now. He apologised to the player in question and apologised to anyone who found it offensive. That does not mean that he has no right, years later, to talk and write about racism that he has experienced and sees.

Should we now ignore Diane Abbott when she talks about racism and oppressions because of this letter? I would suggest that despite getting this wrong, she still has plenty to say and deserves to be heard.

I suspect that that those that drag this up every time David Baddiel talks about anti-semitism have more of an issue with the uncomfortable questions he asks of the left rather than the sketch and joke that he has profusely apologised for.

All these Labour Jewish voices that came out to support Jackie Walker who was expelled from the Labour Party for anti-Semitism whereas David Baddiel with an obnoxious racist past gets to write the script. The real target was the popularity of Jeremy Corbyn and his support for Palestinians.

@notanotheroneagain

"What???

Where do those slave descendants sit in an African society today"

+++++

Unlike the Atlantic Slave trade few records were kept by Barbary slave traders. But the majority of European white slaves taken to Africa were either worked to death or executed. A large number stayed and intermingled with the local population. A minority of the the wealthy slaves were ransomed and an even smaller minority for example Thomas Pellow managed to escape.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Pellow

wearesouthdevon.com/barbary-pirates-torbay/

The fear of being taken into slavery is the reason that Rule Britannia has the verse :

"Rule Britannia, Britannia, rule the waves
Britons never, never, shall be slaves"

There was a massive and long lasting economic impact along the south coast of the UK particularly in Cornwall and Devon from working men taken into slavery and the millions paid out in ransom.

I agree she has a point. But her letter revealed what she really thinks, and that appears to be not much of Jews.

Also I hope those vigorously defending DA would mount the same spirited defence of, say, Kemi Badenoch.

Recently I visited Hughenden Manor, the home of Disraeli, I believe the only Jewish prime minister. Interestingly the most extreme anti-Semitic protests against him, when he stood for Parliament, were by the Liberals. Stooping as low as ever!

You (and others) seem to be going to great lengths throughout this and another similar thread to tell Jews they are wrong about the racism they face. That in itself is despicable and is a huge reason why Jews don't feel safe. But to you it's "disagreement". This covert - rather than explicit - antisemitism is what distinguishes left wing antisemitism from the more blatant right wing antisemitism but it is no less harmful and fuck knows where it's going to lead.

That's what's vile about it.

@notanotheroneagain Well, I have done a deep dive as you call it, and can quite confidently say JC is an antisemitism apologist at best, and an antisemite at worst. There's an excellent post by a PP explaining this but obviously you have had no interest in engaging with it.

Sorry quoted the wrong post 🤦‍♀️ meant to quote @Samphiredragonfly

notanotheroneagain I said in my first post that she’s not wrong that black and brown people will suffer a particular for of racism. I think most pp on this thread have agreed as much so to claim this thread is all lives matter I don’t think is fair. I think most people with half a brain cell can understand what she was getting at. She just didn’t have to claim that Jews and other minorities don’t suffer racism and conveniently omit the holocaust when discussing historical oppressions. At best you could call it insensitive but really we all know what it is and I’m someone who really really didn’t want to think DA was antisemitic.

I totally agree about what I see as a swing to far right in the Conservative Party, the outright xenophobia promoted and encouraged by this current government actually frightens and saddens me in equal amounts.

@TeapotElephant

Do be careful of posts like this and do your own deep dive, as you stated.

JC has a particular view about how things are being handled by the government of a particular country at this time. This does not make him anti-semitic. He had a particular view about apartheid SA, that did not make him anti-white or racist against whites.

Nor does being against Putin, make me anti- Russians as people.

I kind of understand what DA was getting at, in that people of African heritage too often suffer a more overt, less subtle and more direct form of racism. I don't entirely disagree. But she willfully minimises racism experienced by other groups at a time when KS is doing a good job of cleansing the party's anti-Semitic image. She turned it almost into a competition over who suffered more, which was tasteless and actually pretty inaccurate.

DA has done so much good and its a shame she's written this piece so badly. I hope that she is allowed to continue as a Labour MP purely because of the good that she has done. I don't want her job on a platter, and it would be a shame for her career to end in this way. But DA and fellow MPs need to do better.

Funnily enough I wouldn't say MN has 'many' labour voters. Swinging more right nowadays looking at the threads about immigration and trans folk.
To suggest that DA is representative of most Labour voters is ridiculous. Starmer acted quickly and as made it clear the party won't tolerate anti semites/anti zionists or whatever they call themselves.
Saying that, the Conservative party haven't covered themselves in glory. Brexit has unleashed shocking xenophobia and they've pretty much turned into the Britain First party.

Nope.

My point is that there is a hierarchy . It exists.

The best that DA could have said is comparing Jewish experience to Islamophobia for example. So you could be Islam, and without your hijab, name etc. most people would not identify you in the streets. Technically you could be white and Islamic, but if you are not wearing your traditional head covering etc, and are instead wearing 'traditional English' clothes going to work etc. No one can identify you immediately and assault you as a result. Same if you are gay or trans etc. Your identity can be hidden - maybe I should phrase that as you have the power/choice to make it irrelevant. Black people don't have this choice at all.

No one is trying to minimise anything. But different levels of bigotry for different groups does exist.

That's a fact.

i am aware my Nanny got teased for having red hair but the level of prejudice is not comparable to what my Asian dad suffered and still has to occasionally deal with and the judgements that are still made on him to this very day

he takes it on his stride sadly because he has been conditioned to this makes me feel really sad and angry

The Labour party has many anti-Semites in it (as evidenced by the fact Corbyn was elected leader by party members!), Mumsnet has many Labour voters...

Can you quote the ‘vile comments’? I’m not being facetious, i can’t see anything ‘vile’ beyond disagreement (which is unsurprising given you started a thread)

The issue is the Labour & Tory parties have "rules" disciplinary procedures to follow.

So as i eluded too earlier, Abbott may have an illness, she is a diabetic too, so they "might" be mitigating factors, ones she has chosen not to make public in her apology..... maybe there isn't? neither you or i know.

These aren't excuses for her outrageous views but Labour have to follow their rules/process.

My own opinion is she shouldn't be allowed to run as a Lab candidate and should be permanently removed from the party BUT follow the rules in order to do so, as they did with Corbyn.

As for the Tory MP, again, there should be an investigation, i'm not calling for his automatic removal.

Don't twist this, she did the opposite.

This thread reads : 'All lives matter'.

The same people who are offended would probably not equate anti-semitism to homophobia for example, but they seem to have a problem with DA saying anti-semitism is not the same as racism.

"Well you obviously believe there is a hierarchy, if you are going to be offended that Jewish people are compared to the hatred lobbed at red headed people.

After all, a redheaded person can tell you how they and their ancestors get spit at, called names, kicked and punched just for how they look. Do you consider their oppression the same as you then?"

Such deep deep antisemitism on this thread. I'm actually list for words with this comparison. Go educate yourself, the Holocaust Educational Trust may be a good place to start.

What???

Where do those slave descendants sit in an African society today?