Diane Abbott

The Tories would never let a woman be prime minister or an ethnic minority.....

Actions speak louder than words.

Yet the Tories who have been openly racist, sexist, classist etc, seem to get away with it. They’re the nasty party who are openly the nasty party, yet people still vote for them. I can’t get my head around why we allow any of these wankers to remain in their jobs. I’d be fired if I expressed such views and rightly so. Yet you can be an openly racist MP and be promoted to PM.

David Baddiel on LBC now.....

Labour have always been antisemitic and always will be . They are the nasty party under the guise of caring about people .

Why would anyone be surprised or upset about the Tories making the most they can about Abbott's letter? I'm sure she thought it through, and took that into account before publishing it in the Observer?

Yes I believe this is the case and certainly reflected left-wing student politics when I was younger. I just never realised it extended to Romanis and similar groups, I presume because this group see them as "white" and therefore don't count. Woefully ignorant.

She (along with Corbyn and all that Momentum lot) have spent decades living in an intellectual bubble which fixates on hierarchies of injustice and in whose ideology Jewishness is bound up with a hatred of Israel and a perception that Jews are complicit in the "western imperialism" which they rail against the whole time, purely because of Israel

You're right of course, Thepeopleversuswork, and I really should have included the intellectual bubble in my list - though I'm not sure "intellectual" is quite the right word for it, and preferred your use of "ideological"

Sadly we see this blinkered thought process with all manner of extremists, and it helps precisely nobody

Letting Labour get away with bullshit because 'they're not the Tories' is how we've ended up with a Labour Party in thrall to queer theory, oblivious to workers' rights, and incapable of applying class analysis to the position of women in society.

I am disappointed when people try to distort or selectively ignore parts of history to promote their own agenda, especially by trying to own a "problem" to make themselves the main or only victims.

"Only black people were enslaved"
"Irish people were the first slaves ever sold"
"Only jews were victims of Nazi Genocide"

Slavery was well established at a large scale in all ancient civilisations. It is well documented (including in the Bible) in Ancient Egyptian, Israelite, Greek and Roman times - and very few of these slaves were black. A significant number of slaves were actually from the same country/race as the slave masters. It was almost certainly practised in earlier times, but documentary evidence is sparse. Spartacus is perhaps one of the most well known ancient slaves and he was Thracian (now mainly in Bulgaria) and he assembled a 70,000 strong (white) slave army around 72BC to fight the Romans.

Nazi Genocide (ie. non-combat killing for political reasons) resulted in over 16 million deaths, and just over 6 million of these were jews.

Abbott has had the whip suspended. It is amazing it has not been withdrawn permanently, and she hasn't been expelled by Labour, especially coming just days after Starmer's comments about Sunak/Raab and his inferred promise to deal immediately and decisively deal with similar situations.

What always bothers me is how people get frothed at the mouth about Labour’s antisemitism but then go on and vote for the Tories and people like Boris Johnson who has been openly racist, sexist and classist, why are people shouting about Diane Abbott yet Johnson got away with the things he wrote (which I will not repeat). It’s all disgusting. But you cannot in all conscience not vote for Labour because of antisemitism and vote for the Tories instead who are just as vile in their views. Shouldn’t be voting for any of these bastards.

We need a huge political shake up or a new party, but the opposing choices are just too weak. Sick of the lot of them.

This shouldn’t be a competition as to who has it worse

I couldn't agree more, but someone perhaps ought to tell Diane Abbott since she's spent years demonstrating that's exactly what she does think it's about

And then she accuses others of employing "divide and rule" ...

I reported your previous post for being anti-Semitic Abhanmor, so I guess that's why it was deleted. I neither know nor care what ethnicity you are.

I'd have thought it fairly obvious that she either doesn't care about the experiences of other races, that she lacks the intellect to find out, or that she just plain resents someone suggesting that black people aren't the only ones to suffer - and possibly all three

I think it's more complex than that. Diane Abbott is far from stupid. But she (along with Corbyn and all that Momentum lot) have spent decades living in an intellectual bubble which fixates on hierarchies of injustice and in whose ideology Jewishness is bound up with a hatred of Israel and a perception that Jews are complicit in the "western imperialism" which they rail against the whole time, purely because of Israel.

There is very much a view in these circles that some sorts of racism are more acceptable than others and Jews are often treated by these people as being in a class of their own because they are so obsessed with the Israel/Palestine situation and Jews are (wrongly) positioned as complicit in this. David Baddiel has talked a lot about the way British Jews are often required to state their position on Israel when talking to people on the left as if they required to "cleanse" themselves of any alliance with or support for Israel in order to be classed as an oppressed group of people.

Its childish and a triumph of ideology over common sense, but I don't think its explicit, intentional antisemitism (not that this excuses it), its unconscious antisemitism founded out of an obsession with "the west" (meaning, largely, the US, the UK and Israel) as the font of all world evil.

Travellers were, and are, identified as soon as they speak - if they weren't already recognised from living in caravans. Racism against them was/is localised and insidious but also supported by national law concerning parking, sites, education, health provision, etc. In areas where travellers commonly stop, everyone can identify the travellers.
The prejudice and racism against them might not have made the TV until the 1980s but it has always existed. It's not an anomaly that Hitler targeted them. He was enacting racism and prejudice that was replicated across the globe.
But Diane Abbot writing a frankly offensive letter equating others' experiences to having red hair - isn't a reason not to vote Labour. The reason not to vote Labour is because they have persecuted women, kowtowed to misogynists and are no longer the party of workers' rights. Fwiw the Tories aren't either.

@EllaDisenchanted There are lots of Jewish ex members of the Labour Party as I'm sure you know. People like Jacqueline Walker and many others Usually socialists and mostly supporters of justice for Palestinians.

They didn't resign because Starmer is a useless Tory lite stooge. They were expelled.

I find her defence of 'That was the first draft which I sent by mistake' interesting.

I want to see the draft she meant to send. Because she seems to be suggesting there is a way to say this that people wouldn't find appalling.

Or even Hackney and Stoke Newington, which is Abbott’s seat. Apsana Begum is the MP for Tower Hamlets.

And I also haven't a clue how my acknowledging the different history and context of racism towards people from certain ethnic backgrounds is somehow perpetuating discrimination in the UK. I'd have thought that pretending that context doesn't exist and that we all have the same experiences does quite the opposite, actually.

In the 80s it was common to see "No Travellers" signs in London pub windows.

He is the biggest hypocrite going.
Also allegedly knew about certain dodgy DJs and said nothing in the 90s.

Sorry, but I honestly still don't know what you're talking about or what you have understood from my post.

I an not "asserting my privilege" in the slightest, but I am acknowledging it.

Of course, black people living in Africa will not experience systemic racism in their own countries in the way that black people are likely to experience it in the West. That wasn't the point I was making. But equally, as a white person who has lived as an ethnic minority in more than one majority non-white country, I recognise that, while I did experience prejudice sometimes, my experiences were not comparable to the systemic racism and historic oppression that minority communities experience in majority white countries.

I still don't understand why you think my post is patronising, or even who you think I'm patronising.

She seems to have lost her mind completely - she has been the subject of frequent, disgusting racist abuse herself so quite why she feels that this empowers her to diminish the experience of others is beyond me

I'd have thought it fairly obvious that she either doesn't care about the experiences of other races, that she lacks the intellect to find out, or that she just plain resents someone suggesting that black people aren't the only ones to suffer - and possibly all three

FWIW I'm surprised she hasn't described today's action as racist in itself, but probably it'll come. In tthe meantime it's hardly surprising that so many are glad to see this total embarrassment removed at last

You are correct. I'm Irish and never heard remarks about Travellers until the 80s. Certainly they wouldn't have been mentioned separately on signs , classifieds ads etc. No need since they are Irish too.

Abbot is correct to say it was easier for white skinned minorities such as myself to assimilate. I was even told as much by a National Front member in the early 80s. It is self evident in any case.

"Gypsies don't count" not coming to any bookshop anytime soon.

What won the general election for Labour in 1997 was a charismatic and believable leader** and a team around him that looked fair and reasonable.

With Diane Abbott and Angela Raynor (who I actually quite like sometimes) Keir Starmer is going to be hampered come the big day in around 18 months time. I think you are right OP.

It will be down to three people whether or not Labour get elected - the editors of The Daily Mail, The Daily Express and The Sun.

** Blair was then before the power went to his head and he got in bed with Bush.