"As a parent..."

We all lack something not by choice.

If that was a reason for others to stifle their self-expression it would be a very sad world.

On the "welcome to the adult world" my friends have said that at several points in our lives... my first post-uni job, first time I signed my rental contract, and when I got my mortgage. Do you think you might just be reading into it a bit too much?

Those are really not comparable, certainly not for the childless not by choice.

So what's the solution then? Are parents supposed to live and speak as though they don't have children? So that they don't offend the child free? Because it's difficult to know what innocent comment is going to offend them.

On the "welcome to the adult world" my friends have said that at several points in our lives... my first post-uni job, first time I signed my rental contract, and when I got my mortgage. Do you think you might just be reading into it a bit too much?

They're just describing that as a parent you can feel something differently. But having that view seems to bring the parent bashers out - are they suddenly the bosses of how parents are allowed to feel?

@wornoutslippers what many (not all!) people who've become parents don't grasp in these discussions, is that non-parents - and particularly women - in our society, are generally regarded in a stereotypical way as (take your pick o these):
selfish,
unempathic,
child-hating,
not fully human,
not fully experienced in emotions
not fully adult.

This is the undercurrent of many public comments (by "celebrities," for example) along the "as a parent" comments. That non-parents are somehow completely lacking in these extra empathic feelings.

It's more than "just describing." Such comments are underpinned by a more general set of social stereotypes about non-parents, and particularly childless women.

I can remember someone saying - in a group chat - to a mutual friend who'd just become a father: "Welcome to the adult world." As if any non-parent is not a real adult.

Being a parent doesn't make you more empathic

But boy do things feel/hit different when they happen when you ARE a parent. It makes you feel a whole other planet of feelings when you have kids

@wornoutslippers I think we’re reading such different threads that it’s pointless continuing to debate further.

@coeurnoir I’m not insulting you in any way. I’ve not been rude. I have simply asked you

a. Do you know what a mega-analysis is?
b. Why do you think the published paper I posted is ‘crap’?

Neither question you’ve answered - and now regressed to the ‘dear’ scenario…..it’s fine, I bet lots of people over claim to prove a point but don’t keep going at it as it’s a bit silly.

@fitzwilliamdarcy no one's suggesting they're the only ones capable of experiencing them.

They're just describing that as a parent you can feel something differently. But having that view seems to bring the parent bashers out - are they suddenly the bosses of how parents are allowed to feel?

Is the rule now that you can and must only feel things as a human being? Not as a woman, not as young person, or as an old person, Jewish or Asian, Rich or poor etc.

You can and must only feel things at a universal human level and anything else is wrong/insulting/acting in a superior way.

In the grand scheme of things saying "as a parent" is such a minor thing, but wow the umbridge taken on this thread is wild.

Your emotions aren’t wrong or offensive.

Suggesting that you’re the only ones capable of experiencing them is both.

Do you actually know what a meta- analysis is because your sentences are not making any sense?

Hope so as I've been involved in writing about 30 of the things 🤣

But you carry on insulting me if it makes you feel better dear.

Agreed @wornoutslippers. Seem to be forgetting we were childless once.

Or this thread has become about childless women telling parents that their emotions are wrong and cause offence.

Do you actually know what a meta- analysis is because your sentences are not making any sense?

‘One crap paper does not a meta analysis make?’ Well of course not, how could anyone suggest it did?

I’m simply asking if you’ve read the paper I posted, and to tell me what you think is ‘crap’ about it since you declared it was. Whether there’s a meta review is at this point irrelevant.

you’re not a scientist are you……

To repeat....one crap paper does not a meta analysis make.

But I can see I'm wasting my breath 🤷‍♀️.

After many many years of working in and around clinical trials I know bullshit when I see it

@coeurnoir ah I see. When you’re a scientist you can tell a research study is crap by not reading it and just stating so. Come back when you’ve read it

I agree with what you're saying OP but I do think people, quite selfishly, have more empathy for a situation when they are able to relate to it. Your example is exactly like when men say "As a father of a daughter...." when talking about violence to women and girls. It's very very common and if you look you'll see it everywhere, there's a reason why the cruel and inhumane murder of Sarah Everard struck many chords with women across the country and somewhat began their consideration that the police aren't all that nice and cuddly protectors of the public - some demographics had been shouting from the rooftops for decades about this but it made no difference until it was relatable.

Yes, it’s pretty ironic. And they don’t see it.

As I said, anyone can find a crap study to prove their opinion.

After many many years of working in and around clinical trials I know bullshit when I see it.

Google does not a meta analysis make.

We a have a limited amount of attention (and fucks) to give and we tend to think and empathize more with the things that affect us and that relate to our own experiences. So I think it's entirely normal for parents to have a particular perspective on a whole range of things.

To care equally about everything all the time - now that would be weird. How would you even function?

I think they have sometimes more primitive empathy in terms of a visceral response but it doesn't mean anything as their resources will always be channelled into the well being of their children primarily. People without children might be slower to spot and respond to signs of distress in a child but in the long term they have more resources to help a stranded child and will be more able to do so. And then there are all the other differences down to personality and values that probably make more difference anyway.

@SallyWD that is an opinion piece. It’s no more legitimate’ than any post on here.

As a scientist (see what I did there?) I know how easy it is to find crap,research studies that demonstrate the argument a person is trying to make

That’s not an insight. Have you read this one and have feedback? No?

Or perhaps parents have LESS empathy because they're so focused on their children:
www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2015/11/having-kids-can-make-parents-less-empathetic/416592/

You can find studies to support any hypothesis.

If this is accurate, does not the Schadenfreude cancel out the empathy?

As a scientist (see what I did there?) I know how easy it is to find crap,research studies that demonstrate the argument a person is trying to make.