Is this the end for the NHS?

Has anyone had a recent surgery? How long was your wait time from Pre op assessment. I was told a year wait when I asked but had my pre op a week ago after only waiting 1.5 months? I am waiting on thyroid removal for Graves’ disease

And don't worry they are going at the end of foundation training, and yes Consultants are going too. We can't manage without either of those groups!

@Gigihadr Not going to get into the politics with you other than to say I disagree 100%. The issue is not the Tories but local NHS trusts who are mismanaged and waste money (on Chief Execs salaries and poor purchasing powers.) That money could go to doctors and nurses. You can't blame the Tories when the money for the NHS has increased by millions every single year. More investment that under Labour.

However, on the issue of private health and NHS- the NHS is there for RTAs, heart attacks and life threatening emergencies.

Private insurance is there for elective surgery or other treatment. Many also now offer private GP appointments , usually by phone.

I am looking forward to reading about Wes Streeting's speech to the King's Fund later today. He is going to say that the NHS needs reform as much as, if not more than, more resources. Which is a significant step towards common sense. However, when Labour is elected, they'll probably appoint him to some ministry that ain't Health.

I hope you’re wrong with all my heart, but I fear you are right.

Most stay because they have family and other commitments in the UK - perhaps a partner with an established career.
At the moment doctors can only reasonably emigrate at the end of foundation training or at consultant stage.
Once they start the specialist or intermediate training then this isn't recognised in many countries so would have to start again at ST1 or IMT1.

I get young doctors wanting better rewards for everything they are asked to put in in the early years of their careers. But I do think an updated training contract could be developed. For instance, 5 years medical school and house training. you pay the first three years of your degree like anyone else does with parental help mostly, and the NHS then gets you cheap for two years. When you qualify fully, you can walk away from the NHS, but your training costs are instantly due in full if you emigrate in your first 10 years. If you qualify, in anything, on a state subsidised ticket, then you should be required to work off the debt. Full time, part time... I don't care. But I do get quite cross about doctors trained in the UK moving to Australia for half the hours, and twice the money. I can't fault their reasoning.

Private healthcare: medical care is from consultants only.
Trainees of all grades leaving for Australia: none get to consultant level here.
Private healthcare: eventually no UK doctors.

Enjoy the private system while it lasts. Soon it will be feeling the effects of the trainee doctor exodus, as much as the NHS is.

What's the expression be careful of what you wish for? I had private coverage through DH company insurance scheme and claimed for necessary but elective surgery. All good, the claim was paid and time moved on.

DH moved company, has healthcare as part of the package, same setup as previously. I got refused coverage. I've since been refused by another insurance company due to pre-existing conditions.

We're very much in danger of having a 2 tier healthcare system and it'll be down to how wealthy you are.

I think if you can afford private health care then do it. My husband had been I'll with heart problems ( fixed now thanks God) for approximately 2 years and the waiting list for an appointment with the cardiologist was 12 months! He'd already been off work months and we couldn't wait any longer. Luckily we could afford a private appointment so I rang up on a Monday and got an appointment on the following Thursday. He diagnosed my husband and he's doing well. Can't imagine another year of waiting on the NHS but feel sorry for those who can't afford to go private.

I have private health insurance through work. It excludes preexisting conditions and I need GP preferal. So check terms carefully as otherwise you might not find yourself covered and access can be tricky because you still have the gp referral bottle neck.

Well, you have tacked your own views on re climate change. I wasn't necessarily referring to that. Or suggesting that curing illness might not be needed due to it or anything else.

Last few years with few relatives that's been our experience - varies between wards in same hospital.

Last one in it was was awful in some wards it was unbelievable - frankly the week in the offshoot ward off A&E and technically part of it waiting for a bed on a proper ward- seem to have no one in charge and I think my relative was lucky to get out alive and if family members hadn't been local and capable of visiting daily and after a few scary incidents very vocal I don't think they'd be back at home now.

For pp asking, I only know about the Dutch system. It’s insurance based but tightly controlled by the government so pricing is reasonable. Low income people are still able to access care and children under 18 are free. If you are made redundant, then you are covered for over a year (I believe).

My in-laws pay about 100€ each a month. It’s budgeted for, like rent I suppose. They can always see a doctor and have no complaints.

I sometimes drive them to hospital when I’m visiting (I’m insured for their tiny Dutch car!). Hospitals there seem clean and organised, not as chaotic as wards can be here. I’m sure the system isn’t perfect but I would be happy with a similar system here. I’ve also lived in the US (had a baby there) but it was crazy expensive and that was 16 years ago.

For balance, my ds recently had an accident in UK and a and e were very good, got him stitched up and sent home within 3 hours. We were called up the following day and asked to come back and see a specialist that afternoon. It seems different in other areas though.

My daughter has scoliosis and a chromosome deletion...it can take some time to see a spinal surgeon so the advice is to pay privately then when you see the surgeon will transfer you over to their NHS list....not so great for anyone who can't afford this and then gets pushed further down the list and waits even longer.. my area are no longer doing autism diagnosis (unless in care, known to police etc) so again without money no help etc....it's so shocking but also so scary

Postcode lottery though. My GP surgery don’t even have any phone appointments for 4 weeks, never mind face to face. Urgent same day appointments can only be booked over the phone - catch is you can’t get through for love or money! And no use trying to go into the surgery in person, because by the time the doors open there are no appointments left! You can’t win! I don’t blame the staff, there just isn’t enough of them.

@User1794537 Many people who need knee replacements have had this need caused by being in LOW PAID manual work!

Oh, and if you can afford pmi, then get it.

It varies, not only from trust to trust, but from departments, wards.

My mum was seriously let down by gastroenterology, haematology and elderly care unit. This caused her death last Tuesday.

However, the gastro ward she was on in the days running up to her death gave absolutely outstanding care to mum and to family. Nothing was too much trouble. Even though mum was deeply sedated, they treated her with complete dignity and respect, always said hello when they came in, introduced themselves and were very clear in which care was about to be given.

Nurses and HCAs regularly checked that I was eating and drinking, and I was fed as part of the ward rounds. The food was good.

This shows me that the issue isn't funding, but management. If one ward can achieve this, then there's no reason why the rest of the hospital can't with good management.

If you disagree with me, that's fine, but please be kind with it as I'm still very fragile.

They will give you insurance... it just won't cover your pre-existing conditions. So only new things. I'm in a similar boat - something was discovered a week before my insurance started, and it's not acute, the NHS wait is forever (well, 20 months for consultant appointment), but Bupa are all "computer says no".

For the first time in my life I have private medical insurance through work - Bupa.

For minor things it's been useful. The private virtual GP for things I don't want to bother my own GP with is useful. But last year I needed them for something acute and life threatening - they were shit and I transferred back to NHS (who, due to it being acute, were amazing). I also had to jump through so many hoops when I was really very ill. Only real benefit was they paid me £50 for every night I was in the NHS hospital!