Sad over historical deaths?

God Almighty!

That's terrible.

I recall that at one point the govt were telling the RNLI volunteers not to rescue people in this sort of situation, and the RNLI , to their eternal credit, told them to take a running jump, and that there was no way that they would let anyone drown if they could possibly prevent it.

You're welcome - I'm glad you enjoyed it ("Enjoyed" doing heavy lifting here, I know.) It is a very moving book and really brings home the tragedy, and the effects it had on all of those involved, IMO.

https://www.englishmonarchs.co.uk/hanover_29.html
Octavius and his little brother.
Hopefully their death wasn't horrific, but the void their presence felt by their parents and their little characters is very, very sad.
Read the website linked and see the painting of them and it is so sad!!!
Reminds me of my little brother at that age!
He was George the 3rd's son aka 'mad King George'.
It is said than in later life, after these children had died from their small pox illness, that their father was convinced that a pillow was a vision of Octavius.
It's unusual having a commentary of the parent's grief from that era.
Excrutiatingly sad.

This is where we are as a nation now. I am ashamed.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/apr/30/stricken-dinghy-not-rescued-uk-waters-maritime-logs-reveal

Thanks to your post, I bought A Terrible Kindness and have just wept my way through it, great recommendation, thank you!

Government could fix the crossings in a heartbeat by opening up safe routes such as allowing people to make their application for asylum from whichever country they're currently in - application approved and you'll be brought over. Instead you can only apply once already in the UK which is where the incentive to make the crossing comes from.

Argue over what you want to do to help or not help people who just want a chance at a better life, just whatever you do stop letting all these innocents drown for nothing.

Totally agree @ChopperC110P . A few years ago I remember govt instruction telling the RNLI volunteers not to pick up people from the sea and bring them ashore, but to leave them (to drown).

The RNLI quite rightly and very bravely told the govt to stick it up their hole (may not have been those exact words ). How DARE policiticians try to make murderers of decent, courageous folk!

The poor Syrian boy who drowned trying to get to Kos in 2015 and washed up on the beach in Bodrum still haunts me. His red t-shirt and blue shorts. His recent haircut and little black shoes. The way the police cradled him when they carried him away.

It’s been 8yrs since then and people are still drowning trying to cross these seas- the Mediterranean and the Channel- and all the politicians have done is make things worse. It seems the simplest thing in the world really, put the Navy out there and stop the drownings. Argue over what you want to do to help or not help people who just want a chance at a better life, just whatever you do stop letting all these innocents drown for nothing.

It was dreadful @Askil - we all wept in this house when that terrible piece of footage was shown. The despair in that poor baby's voice. I just wanted to put my arms around him and look after him - poor little boy.

I'll never forget those words too. 'No one Loves me, No one will feed me'. It echoes in my head so often. Why should such a tiny child know so much rejection and pain?

Not only was no-one held responsible, but the massive amount of money collected for families of the victims by public donations was not distributed to them. They were given a tiny portion to cover funeral costs and a family holiday (the irony!) because "they weren't used to money and wouldn't know what to do with it",

NOTHING can compensate a family for the loss of a child, but this could have helped traumatised families to have a slightly easier life when just getting up in the morning was a dreadful chore (some families lost ALL of their children) - money donated exactly for that purpose and which was "re-directed" (I can't remember what it was put towards - but it wasn't what it was raised for. Fraud, effectively.

All the people buried on Hart Island which is basically a mass grave in New York for unclaimed and unidentified people including infants, it was also utilised during the AIDS epidemic and again during COVID. Prison labour was used to operate the site and until as recently as 2019 families of the deceased weren't allowed to visit as it was not open to the public. Many families today don't even know where on the island their loved one is buried.

A charity called the Hart Island Project campaigned for families to have access and is working to identify individuals buried there and their burial locations. They maintain a database on their website and every individual has a clock/timer on their entry which starts counting from the moment they are buried and is stopped when someone claims them by posting a story/memory/photo of them. It's so sad how many have been counting for years without being claimed and then, for the ones who have been reunited, the stories are heartbreaking.

https://www.hartisland.net/about

There is a picture called Massacre of the Innocents by Pieter Rubens senior. It has been painted over to make the content less distressing, so looks like men are trying to kill animals or take bundles of food from their mothers but there are small children on the under paint and their parents are pleading with the men. It is based on the story of Herod killing all the first born sons under two, a story that always made me feel really sad.

April Jones. Baby P. James bulger. Aberfan, Dunblane and that village in France where the nazis rounded everyone up in the school and shot everyone and burned it down.

OP, that guy Richard Poncher, who was buried face down in the crypt above Marilyn Monroe, is no longer there. His widow auctioned off his crypt and removed his remains. Although probably replaced by another weirdo I suppose.

And then there's Katyn. 22,000 Polish prisoners executed by the Russians in 1940. They blamed it on the Nazis at the time and for a long time afterwards.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_massacre

WW2 is a whole other level of evil. I remember reading Captain Corelli's Mandolin and what the Germans did in Greece is horrifying.

The Kalavryta massacre always fills me with sadness.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalavryta_massacre

Bearfrills · Today 19:03

A lot of the New Hartley families are still in the village or thereabouts. The entrance to the pit is now a memorial garden.

Yes, my ex's mam is from Shiremoor and there are five people on the monument with her surname. I mentioned it to her and she was upset - they were all from her ancestor's family.

There are awful parallels between Aberfan and Grenfell. The warning from the villagers/residents that were dismissed and the awful lack of accountability. The contempt for the poor/working class hasn't gone away...Jacob Rees Moggs awful comments about common sense.
The one that really breaks me though, is Jamie Bulger. Perhaps because we know so much about what happened to him and those heartbreaking photos of him being led away. I can't bear to think about what he went through.

Last year I read a really interesting book about the history of the Romanov family. I had to stop part way through when I reached the story of Ivan Dmitriyevich https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsarevich_Ivan_Dmitriyevich. My daughter was about the same age as him when I read his story (a really terrible ending) and it made me feel really sick. He was so small and he must have been so scared. Who does that to a three year old?

It’s taking me ages to finish it which is so unlike me. I keep stopping to absorb and reflect on what I’ve read. He is currently in the tower so the end is near. It’s made me curious now to read more about him.

A lot of the New Hartley families are still in the village or thereabouts. The entrance to the pit is now a memorial garden.

ohfook · 10/04/2023 21:45

The children who died in the Victoria hall disaster in Sunderland too.

Many of them a buried in the cemetery, on Chester Road, there's a memorial, too.

And the Hartley Pit disaster, 167 men and boys killed, because the mine just ignored the law on having two shafts and the authorities winking at it. I live less than 3 miles away and when there's been a winter storm, the old workings get exposed.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/48541674@N00/273371793/in/dateposted/

9 boys from one family killed underground. The youngest ( on another part of the memorial) was 8 years old.

I don't think that people really know the difference between the wives. Katherine of Aragon and Anne of Cleves had powerful families that you didn't mess with.

The other four weren't important enough to refuse, however much influence they may have had temporarily. And they weren't important enough to keep alive.

And even taking account the misogyny of the era, most were actually pretty revolted at Henry's sexual etiquette. For example, wanting pictures of his potential brides - it simply wasn't the done thing to trot out a princess like a brood mare. You wanted the wealth and the alliance. And you treated your wife well (within context) because she was the link to the alliance that you had made.

His habit of marrying for lust and discarding the women was highly disreputable.

Indeed.

TBH, I would wonder about people who aren't affected by such tragedy. There must be something very broken inside them.