To think society is misogynistic and often toxic about infertility?

YABU that you are using instagram and tik tok as reliable sources of information tbh! What did you really expect?

I think I have realised just how hard motherhood can be, from reading Mumsnet and other sources, especially if you have a rubbish DH or partner, and realising there are many aspects of motherhood I’m happy to have missed out on, being grateful for what I have, a wonderful husband, financial security and freedom, and the fact I was able to take early retirement at 58 on a good pension which I probably could not have afforded if we’d had kids, putting them through uni, house deposits etc.

Maybe they just don't create videos about it. 🙄

Infertility doesn’t effect mainly under 40s though; granted they are the age range that are most likely to be fresh in the throes of diagnosis; but actually; if you look at older age brackets; many of them have real, lived experience of the long-term impacts of infertility; and you are probably more likely to hear stories of elder people living well after infertility.

My great gran got married young and had 2 kids really young (late teens) and her husband died in his early 20s. She remarried and her second husband was obviously infertile, or my grandma had developed secondary infertility, as they were unable to conceive a child together. She was obviously sad about it at the time, especially around her husband being unable to have his “own” children (bearing in mind the obvious differences in family structures in the 1920s!) however they built a lovely life together.

I don't think you get to police people's feelings but yes, a part of why women are more devastated by it than men is that we are brought up playing dollies, told we will want a family etc.

What I would like to see change is the information given out about fertility. I know of two couples that struggled to conceive. Both didn't start trying till 33+ and the men were then genuinely surprised by the fact that fertility in women drops off after 35 or so being a factor. Despite the fact their girlfriends had made it clear that this was why marriage was important for them because of the vulnerability of pregnancy, both men dragged their feet with marriage and did the whole 'we don't need a piece of paper' dance. Late marriage followed by late trying to conceive means one of the couples is having to consider what's next as don't qualify for IVF on NHS. Perhaps if society stopped pretending women just want marriage for Instagram and a pretty dress and that it's an important legal protection, and that if you are serious about wanting children you should be able to say so without coming across as 'desperate or crazy' then people would begin at an earlier time and have less need of intervention. The friends going through this have wanted children from the start of the relationships, been fairly open about it, but because of 'cool girl' syndrome they had to wait for their partners to be ready.
There's not enough honesty about fertility and aged celebrities using IVF and surrogacy don't help the narrative that you can have children as late as you like.

I have been ttc my first for 5.5 years and have had 6 miscarriages in that time. We have needed ivf as we have infertility as well as recurrent losses. It's completely exhausting.

I got consumed with Instagram and connected with a lot of women all going through similar experiences to me. One by one, they all have had their children and I'm still in the same position. I'd have supportive messages for a while that slowly turned to 'you deserve it, you're next, you'll get your baby, keep going' etc but now the messages have dried up. I'm no longer sharing what's happening for us and that has been positive for my mental health. I don't go on Instagram anymore either.

The difficulty is, when I was in the thick of ivf cycles I absolutely did not want to hear or read about life after infertility, living childfree or the positives of it not working out. I was not open to that. But I have also got to the point now where I didn't feel hope from other people's successes.

The best thing for me was to take a break from everything, no ttc, no social media, no sharing or talking about what has happened, no counselling. Just living my life, reconnecting with my husband. I'm now in a place where I'm more at peace with it not happening for us. That desperate desire for a child has calmed down. We are not doing ivf but giving it a try with support of a specialist. We have lost so much over the last 5.5 years and there's definitely been a shift for us. But I don't want to talk about it anymore. I think there's probably others like me, but talking and sharing on social media doesn't feel necessary because then it's still linked to children / infertility when the reality is, it's just us living our life, so I don't need to seek out a new 'community' or advice on how to be positive about my life.

There are no positives to infertility. There are positives to being child free but not in having your choice removed.

YANBU. I agree with you.

It made me think, are men just not that bothered and most of the time dragged along this parenting journey?

Judging from the many posts I read on MN from women who want DC with partners who don't and from women whose partners show very little interest in their DC I think you are right.

This isn’t coming from a place of judgement- I’ve also had a complicated reproductive history.

But I don’t understand what could be seen as “positive” about infertility itself. Except from maybe the freedom which being child free brings?

@leaveitnow1244 I suppose with a lot of medical conditions it's quite visible, or the side effects of medications can be a bit more prominent.

With infertility nobody knows unless you tell them, and that can be a really hard thing to do.

From my experience, society just expects everyone to have kids as soon as they're married, or in a committed relationship.

I kind of do now. Obviously not when I was actually ttc.

This, the focus with IVF is overwhelmingly on it eventually working and not giving up and there is not much support and advice out there for when it doesn’t, deciding when to stop etc. Gateway Women is good though.

It’s because those who are not devastated by it generally are less likely to make a TikTok about it, as they give it less headspace.

And I’m failing to see how anyone could frame infertility as a positive. Maybe look for child free content instead of infertility? There are for sure positives about being child free (either by choice or otherwise) but there are very few positives about actually being unable to have the choice to have children.

There are some FB groups - The Non Mum Network for example - that do have positive posts.

I think men just don't openly share their feelings as much as women.
Me and my partner have both suffered infertility and whilst I get that some people come to terms with it , I don't think I would have coped very well. I have yearned to be a mother since I was a child myself and lots of people do.
We are very fortunate to have conceived our son through IVF. He's now 15 months.
I can understand your point, being infertile isn't the end of the world for a lot of people, but for some it really is devastating.

@leaveitnow1244 people tend to post on social media in the moment.
I can't speak for everyone but as someone who is right in the middle of an IVF cycle the only thing I can hope for is for it to work, and having it not work genuinely is devastating. (Not that i plaster my life on social media - nobody knows we're going through this other than me and my husband).

If I have to come to terms with being childless I'm sure I will find the positives in that, but given that it's not such an in the moment process as going through treatment I'd be unlikely to post anything on social media.

I'd imagine there are many, many couples out there posting amazing content about their holidays, amazing homes etc. who technically are being very positive about being childless without actually declaring to everyone that they can't have children.

There are the odd men who post, but you’re right, it is overwhelmingly women.

Also recognise what you say about there being only one narrative about it. And of course it IS absolutely devastating for most women who go through it. But then, once you’ve had time to grieve, you have to look to rebuild a life that is meaningful that looks differently to how you thought it would. That is what’s missing on Instagram etc, because there’s only one approved narrative. And posting about how you went through it and came out the other side isn’t acceptable and appears insensitive.

Tbh most of the posts fall into a few broad categories - either women documenting their struggle, or fertility coaches posting a million and one things you shouldn’t say to someone who’s struggling, etc etc, or some genuinely helpful stuff with info on fertility and IVF. All very samey.

I’m not sure how supportive it actually is. It is in some ways, but in others seems to be quite depressing and there’s a danger you could get stuck in the pain of it all and making that a part of your identity, instead of looking to move on and make what you can of things.

Interesting.

I suppose part of it is that infertility happens to the woman on a very physical cyclical level. Month after month we have the hope and high of ovulation then the disappointment of our period. While men experience the emotions, they don't experience the physical.

I found a lot of women I met during our infertile years blamed themselves a lot and focused a lot on what they could do. The men I know tended to only really get upset / concerned when they were being tested.

My DH had a friend going through it at the same time as us. The only time they spoke about it was when comparing their experiences of sperm tests.

As for the positive. I agree with you. I remember seeing a leaflet at the assisted conception clinic about a support group for accepting a childless life. I think that is something that is missing. The focus is on the treatments, what to try next, moving on to surrogates etc. Help to accept and move on is missing.

For me, things got easier after the 2 year mark when I started to accept I wouldn't be pregnant each month. Making plans for a childless future really helped. Of course I got pregnant then.

This is probably a bit irrelevant, but I remember watching Eastenders years ago and someone had just had their baby/ toddler diagnosed with a ( non fatal/ not massively limiting) medical condition that I have. They were totally devastated and this was a ‘story/ theme for a while, completely negatively, nothing positive.

I felt completely perplexed. I wasn’t devastated or limited by my condition ( in fact, there are a few positives to it, which I find). It’s really unimaginative to portray or focus on only one side of things. If you have to live with it, it’s ok to be upset, but it is possible to embrace the positives.

YANBU Op

Surely people will be posting about what they genuinely feel, and if they feel devastated, that's what they will say. No one is obliged to spread a positive message when it's something they don't remotely feel positive about.