To think society is misogynistic and often toxic about infertility?

Maybe I'm lucky, but my husband cares equally as much, maybe even more than I do about the TTC process. He wanted kids before I did.

He hasn't always been the best communicator of his feelings but we've worked together over the years to understand what we need from each other in our best and worst moments, and everything in between.

I'd argue that 'most' men are probably just a bit misunderstood in the way they communicate, and probably play down a lot of their emotions.

We've been together a long time though, and I think a lot of people probably rush into things without having such a complex understanding of their partner's emotions.

Search for anything about emotions and feelings and it's predominantly women. There's a reason men are a higher suicide risk than women and it's about expressing emotions.

Re negative. It probably wouldn't occur to people who are infertile and happy about it to do a tik tok etc because it therefore isn't such a big issue. "I'm infertile and it's AMAZING" is just quite an odd thing to do it on. I mean it's great to feel that way, but it's probably not something that costumes your thoughts.

Perhaps you could do your own OP and encourage other people to, if that's the kind of content you want to see

Sorry left out the author of the first one - it’s Vivienne Edgecombe.

I've found there's a very narrow range of things men truly care about.

There are other helpful positive books out there too, for example Already Complete - Beyond the Myths of Childlessness and Finding Joy Beyond Childlessness by Lesley Pyne and Jody Day.

I 'get' you, leaveitnow. My parents had infertility problems, were married 18-19 years before they took me in. During that time, my mother did absolutely nothing with her life, never worked (except part time during the war when everyone had to do something), just felt sad, even bitter, about not having a child.

It's encouraging to read a post like yours. A life without children has many possibilities that can be extremely fulfilling; it's sad but if you can come to terms with it, it's good. I have known some infertile couples who have embraced opportunities and enjoyed life, also helped many others.

Men generally don't bare their souls on personal issues like that. I'm pretty sure, if we had had such problems, my husband wouldn't have said a word to anyone. However he still would have felt it.

What you've noticed is that men tend to not engage with a TikTok about infertility that you have posted. That is all.

It most definitely is different, which was kind of my point. Even though the journey through infertility was different, the end result would have been the same. And my friend who was in a similar situation to you (although got her son on her final ever IVF cycle!) found my situation far worse; and I found hers worse. She felt that to get pregnant and then lose a baby was way more heartbreaking than to not get pregnant; because I had my hopes dashed; whereas she never really had a hope in the first place (her only bfp is her son; she has no money for more IVF so her son will almost certainly be her only child)

Its all about perspective and how you react to situations, I guess.

I take the point but given that the culture of men sharing their feelings is still shifting then it's unlikely they would do it on a video?

Perhaps it’s different if your situation is not being unable to conceive but being unable to stay pregnant. I never had a bfp from the time we started ttc to my last period - 21 years. We had six IVF cycles producing fewer and fewer eggs and then I was told I had premature ovarian failure - at age 39 and that it there was no point in doing it any more. Donor eggs not an option for us. It was unexplained infertility - which does not mean there’s nothing wrong, it means they can’t find what is wrong and therefore can’t fix it.

Congratulations on having your son though.

It’s also notable how, when we look at other cultures in time and through history, we tend to to pick times that are similar to our own or look for values that are similar to our own - and potentially, reinterpret them in terms of our own. Women’s status is clearly more variable than men’s, and more often is closely associated with looking after children - but other specialisations are possible and have been made in the past. Actually, this could be a lot longer!

It made me think, are men just not that bothered and most of the time dragged along this parenting journey?

Men as a part of the human species? No, hardly. Most of the control of women is directed at keeping control of breeding stock, and yes that is meant to be offensive because I consider the control of women offensive. In some other cultures, historic and current, men have status by the number of men they kill, the number of wives they own and the number of children they have.

In Nordic countries, in some other older European, and in some other older Middle Eastern cultures, men and women are life partners who take equal joy in parenting and have equal wishes for healthy children.

Modern British / little American society has this weirdness where sex is pushed - literally, sold - as a general good which men still gain status while women still lose status By engaging in. But increasingly men think they are entitled to take with no consequences. But there is still a lot of individual variation - and also a lot of variation from memories of different times. This is not the same country I was born into although I’m only 50 miles from my birthplace, it has changed so much over time.

We are the cultural species beyond all others. The current cultural trends are pretty disgusting to me and look like a socio-economic breakdown. At the least, we have capacity for change, if only whoever holds control allows it. Sorry this was long.

Here on mumsnet. I was talking about my own personal views and they took offence.

I struggled with a feeling of perhaps children weren't meant to be for us. We had unexplained infertility so it wasn't like there was something wrong or that needed fixing. It just wasn't working.

By the time we'd got to IVF I'd started to make peace with being childless (it would have always been childless not child free for me) so part of me was questioning whether we should be playing god.

It was a very personal thought and i don't think IVF children shouldn't exist or anything like that. It was my personal feelings at the time.

FWIW I did get pregnant naturally eventually. When it came time to try for a second I said immediately that I wasn't going through testing and I wasn't going to do IVF. I had made peace with having just one and I didn't want to go through the whole process again. I was lucky and second time round was much quicker and easier.

But are those not more widely benefits of being child free than being infertile? It’s undeniable that being child free has massive benefits; but there is no benefit to not being able to make that choice.

it’s also quite a bit more nuanced in my opinion. For example, if a couple choose to not explore assisted fertility as an option, maybe their ability to accept being child free is greater than a couple who do round after round of IVF; selling their home and borrowing tens of thousands of additional pounds to fund it. And the couple who carry out rounds and rounds of IVF without success may find it easier to cope with than the couple who can easily get pregnant; but their children have all had fatal foetal conditions which has resulted in many stillbirths.

I think the point is nobody’s situation is identical, and nobody reacts identically even in an identical situation.

My reproductive history seems traumatic to many (I’ve had loads of miscarriages, two ectopic pregnancies, I was told that with every pregnancy I’d have roughy a 50% chance of miscarriage and a 1/3 chance of an ectopic pregnancy; but I’m unlikely to get pregnant naturally anyway because my tubes are screwed, and I don’t qualify for assisted conception on the NHS) however, I kind of accepted everything as it happened and was able to move forward. And then I conceived my son, with absolutely no assistance.

Gateway women founded by jody day is entirely about how to life a positive life with infertility. She wrote a book called “Living the life unexpected - how to find hope, meaning and a fulfilling future without children”Gateway women

im infertile so my DH is therefore childless. We find he’s rarely asked about it.

Op if you want to find people celebrating it look under the term child free. Many people on sites about child free status say that they use that term instead of fertility status. Lots of accounts online on forums.

@Twizbe good point, there is pressure to 'prove' that you want it hard enough and that you tried hard enough. But I can see others disagreeing with the principle of IVF and saying things like: perhaps you should accept it it, it's nature's way telling you something which I think is very cruel and not my view but there was a poster on a different thread who said this about their own infertility so this unfortunately gets said or internalised.

I was just thinking.

Years ago I read an interview with Carol Kirkwood and she touched on not being able to have children. I used to work with an older woman who hadn't been able to have children either.

Both seemed to acknowledge the hurt, but there was nothing they could do, no IVF. They made lives for themselves and had a great time. Maybe it was better for them that there wasn't anything to be done ... I don't know.

But then nowadays you get the sense that you HAVE to do IVF. I got totally rounded on a while ago for daring to say I'd had reservations about it.

Posting version of doom scrolling.

Up until fairly recently in human history it was the woman's fault for infertility. The symbol for fertility is a pregnant healthy woman, not a virile healthy young man. Yes there is misogyny and stigma on women but I know men get ripped and their manhood and masculinity ridiculed for being infertile. If it was his wife who is infertile I think the comments would be leave her or adopt. If it was him who is infertile, well we know the type of 'jokes' they'd get. I think women get more support because they speak up about it and because our 'plumbing' and role in carrying a pregnancy is bigger and for longer than men's so it seems more of the blame or responsibility is placed on the woman which is horribly unfair and cruel.

If somebody has accepted it maybe they don’t feel the need to splash it on social media.
As for men, it’s still a taboo so I don’t get your oh the misogyny point.