are we all just wank material?

Exactly. Why aren't we as kind to women who simply want to congregate together and do fun things, without harassment.

It’s so tiresome

sadly too many men (I couldn’t give a fuck it’s not all men the issue is it’s far too many men think it’s fine to push boundaries)

I really can’t be bothered anymore once this starts I just cut them off I wish fewer women would pander to this but it’s become so normalised I understand why they don’t

I knew a 'I'm a nice guy' once. He fell out with me when I married my DH (a genuinely nice guy) because apparently he was waiting for me to 'grow out of my bad boy phase' and then I owed it to him to be in a relationship with him because he had bothered to be friends with me for so long.

I find men who call themselves 'nice guys" and moan women don't like them because they are too nice generally aren't actually that nice under all that (and can even stray into incel territory). Genuinely nice guys don't feel the need to announce they are nice because they take their behaviour as normal and standard

And if anything what the women of mumsnet generally seem to be looking for (the ones into men at any rate) is a man who will pick the kids up from school, do the washing up without being asked, not expect sex a week after you have given birth, hold down a job and doesn't try to physically, financially or emotionally abuse them. So I mean yeah if you call that fun then sure MN women just wanna have fun

would pass on the 'nice' guys because they're not as much fun.

I hope this tired old trope ends soon.
Also, no one is owned a relationship, and no one has to date anyone they don’t find ’fun’, if they don’t want to.

Yes all men are like that.

Statistically impossible.

Not on Mumsnet, here it's the norm.

I suspect that when it comes to dating a lot of mumsnetters would pass on the 'nice' guys because they're not as much fun.

Statistically impossible.

I am :( what a shit world we live in at times. That good men need bad men to look less shit. Men as a class need to sort their house out.

Did he get a lot of praise for sewing the costumes?

They were OK. I was away for work and was meant to make them princess dresses but didn't have time. So he just got stuck in, read the manual for the sewing machine and bought a pattern and material. The girls thought they were great and had to keep them on to show mummy. They were teddy bears for most of the the weekend. As for praise, I was pleased he'd done it (though I thought he'd just buy a couple of outfits from ghe shops) as far as he was concerned he was their dad and that's just what you did. He did some more sewing, seemed to quite enjoy it, at least it was cleaner than working on the car or allotment.

Maybe he just genuinely likes those things.
Did he get a lot of praise for sewing the costumes?

Interesting post. Does this mean that women should restrict themselves to flower arranging and dressmaking?

OH likes poetry, always has. He also cooks and bakes. He even sewed the girls costumes for one of the dress up days when they were little (teddy bears). Maybe there's something wrong with him.

@Mark19735 at the end of the day you’re the one getting defensive because some women dare to admit they don’t really like men, based on nothing but their own experiences.

More and more women are seeing a common problem. AIBU has hosted more discussions on this in the last year than I can remember there being in the previous 10+ years. I’m not convinced this is because a merry band of man-haters have spread their saltiness - that tends to be an ineffective way to find friends and influence people - it’s because they are learning from their own experiences.

Are there any left?

It’s cringe as fuck.

Having experienced it by getting unwanted suggestive messages from a gay guy I worked with, it really opened my eyes to the problem that women have long raised with any digital platform that has a messaging feature.

Yuck.
Join a women's group?

Maybe opportunistic is a word for it and of course there would be different levels of that.

One of the very few studies of perpetrators, 90% said they did it for fun and excitement. Those interviewed admitting harassing women ranging from ogling to stalking to rape.

@TobeLeRone sweetie - you know nothing about the people you opine on. I've lived through more waves of feminism than most of the AMALT brigade have had have failed relationships. That includes meeting and listening to some of the greats tell of their perspectives on feminist issues in person. Even the most radical were far more thoughtful and nuanced in real life than the uncompromisingly hard lines being advanced by some posters on these threads.

Anyone who can't see beyond the first four letters of a username and takes a very broad brush to generalise away every disagreement they face online does come across as rather unhinged. Some basic reading comprehension might also help ... the accounts I suggested might be bots are the ones posing as men asking for nudes and sending dick pics - not the women complaining about those interactions. It is well known that scammers are looking for suggestible people. Nobody really thinks the Nigerian Prince hoping to share his inheritance with a lonely widow on an online dating site is genuinely representative of any real man in real life, do they?

Having got that off my chest ... those four categories seem right to me. And through simple logic we seemingly agree that NAMALT (as Cat 4 implies). If any woman wants to live her life avoiding men because they fear the next man they meet may be like that, I fully support that choice. 100%. But if they then also feel the need to denigrate other women who haven't made the same choice, and if they feel they have the right to slander men they've never encountered, then I will call them out for what they are - deeply unpleasant and prejudiced misanthropes. Withdrawing from an activity that makes you unhappy is good self-care. Working to prevent anyone else from enjoying that activity by going online and deliberately salting the earth is sociopathic, and morally indistinguishable from much of the online conduct of the men in Cat 1.

Why would you need to know what room she's in full stop? Why would that be important information?
If I'm texting someone about a group or shared interests, the room they're in or whether they're alone is of no concequence to me, unless of course I have an agenda, other than talking about the shared interests or group.

Call it out OP Showa the messages on the group. We need to keep showing them that we don’t want this behaviour!

Oh look. We have a live one. Seedy little man thinking he’s playing the ‘gotcha’ card.

Tedious.

I think there's also an in between of your categories 2 and 4, Tobe.

A man who disapproves and will call it out sometimes/if he feels it's appropriate (e.g. among friends) but most of the time will ignore it.

Or maybe category 4 is just incorrect, I don't think somebody could possibly call it out every single time. If you thought the bloke doing it was violent and nuts then you probably wouldn't challenge him. If it's your boss or your client you're meant to impress then you probably wouldn't challenge him. But if it's your mate or you're watching a comedy gig and the comedian makes a joke about it then you might.

Stop playing games and wasting women's time.

why do you even have to let the group know what sex you are?