9 year old daughter’s behaviour

HI @Childbeingreallybold . Interested to hear how things have been with your daughter since you posted a year ago. We are experiencing similar problems with our daughter. Thanks

My DD is 9 and similar to this. Has HUGE temper outbursts. Apparently hormonal surges/ the start of puberty can hit them hard at this age. A friend who is a teacher says that year 4 is the year where they tend to see a lot of girls struggling with emotions and anxiety. Plus the added pressure of an increased focus on academics, school being more serious, etc.

I find that actually what helps - as difficult as it can be to do - is to try show you understand her and sympathise with her. Some of it at least will be to do with experiencing huge emotions that they just don't have the maturity to deal with, so you can help her with that. Look, I know it's tough. This morning DD got annoyed with her reading and threw a book across the dining table in a temper nearing knocking everything over. My initial reaction was to shout at her. That just got her more riled up, she stormed off screaming that she wasn't going to school. I waited for her to calm down a little bit and then went and talked to her about what had made her upset. That did the trick.

Also, I find my DD sometimes gets overwhelmed/ stressed with everything she has to do. Maybe academics and sports 3 times a week is too much? Maybe she needs a little down time? We all know the feeling of things getting on top of us and how that makes us feel.

@EcoBulb this has totally resonated with me, our DD is the exact same and I am now wondering if she could have ASD too. Her tantrums are usually started by moaning about something completely innocuous like an item of clothing and then it escalates from there and usually results in her telling us how she hates us etc. It’s really getting me down as she says some really hurtful things but is an absolute angel in school. So you’re definitely not alone OP but I’m not sure I have any words of wisdom

I know you said it as a punishment but I would go a step further and tell her that it's not just punishment but also a way for you to make time for your family without having to keep an eye on her behaviour.
The problem with only using it as punishment is that while she will be sad about it but once it's over she is out of the woods and I think she needs to understand that this behaviour needs to be under control or you might decide that she will not be able to join certain things if there is a risk she'll totally loses control.
It might be beyond her remit at the moment but I would want to at least see her try and control her outbursts.

@creamwitheverything probably because the dd finally realised mum was not a punching bag and a push over. Kids need boundaries (preferably before you get to the point where you are screaming like a banshee!)
Gently explaining everything to infinity is pointless when behaviour has already got so bad.

But how can this punishment be too harsh? She is hitting people. How can leaving her at home with her dad be "too harsh"? Where do you think this will end of you just back down? I honestly don't understand your way of thinking.

I don't think it's good to conflate abandonment and punishment, so leaving her while you go away (even if she's with her dad) probably isn't the best plan. However obviously she does need some firm boundaries.

My friend is going through the same problem with her dd.She has an 11 yr old the same age as my daughter. Unless you saw it with your own eyes you would not believe this kind,funny ,gentle,sweet young girl coul dever display that kind of behaviour but she did.My friend is the kind of woman who is gentle,loving,softly spoken and reasonable who also does not handle confrontation,She would always seek to calm her dd and pacify her when her dd became explosive.My friend was heartbroken,her marriage was suffering because of it ,she felt like the most useless parent ever and she was becoming frightened by her dd who was very strong.She tried most things but she only had success with one thing. I am not sure I would advocate what she did but I have no experience of what she was living through but I knew she was going through the mill,they all were. One particular evening my friend had been attacked by her dd and she had fallen and cut herself on the corner of a chair.now this lady was so quiet,so calm ,so reasonable so wanting to diffuse the situation that she actually shouted at her dd. Apparently this was a rarety but she yelled her head off and swore and screamed at her dd.My friend would never ever do this but on this occassion she did.She lost it and the outcome was her dd was so shocked probably by never seeing her mum,her lovely kind,gentle mum turn into some sort of banshee(my friend described it as her being like a fishwife down the docks!!!) it shocked her dd into next week. My friend hated herself afterwards for being cruel but it did calm things down for her.For the first time her dd apologized aparently. My friend was living on her nerves not knowing what she would face on a daily basis and she flipped.Not saying it stopped completey but it did lessen.They both seem much calmer a few months on and their house does seem lighter and they laugh more and fight less. I dont know what I would do in your position OP it must be heartbreaking for you but it seems this short sharp shock worked a little for my friend and her dd.Now if things flare up mum says go out of my sight now in a low voice and her dd goes to her room til her dd feels calmer.Dont know if any of this helps you but it seems you are far from alone. I wish you and your dd well going forward.

Being academic doesn’t rule out additional needs.

My 9 year old DD is academically capable, has - on the face of it if you aren’t looking deeply - good social skills and is very very well behaved in school.

She has also fairly recently been diagnosed with autism (and is waiting for ADHD assessment too). This goes some way to explaining the explosive meltdowns and frustrations we were seeing at home, especially after masking and holding it together all day. She often blames her siblings and takes it out on them - although she has now learnt to recognise later that they weren’t the trigger, and to apologise.

During a meltdown (which can look, to some people, very much like a temper tantrum) her brain is “offline”. Threatening punishments and telling off only makes the situation a lot worse, she needs a calm adult to stay near and reassure, to help her to regulate her emotions. I think this is what all children whi have lost control need though, regardless of SEN. There must be triggers for your DD, it isn’t a lifestyle choice to behave like this and there is no way she can be feeling good about herself.

Seconding The Explosive Child. The strategies in it are really helpful.

When she (and you) are calm, it's definitely worth talking about school. There are a few possibilities: school with its predictable routines helps her; something is happening at school (bullying etc) that she hasn't disclosed; additional needs are meaning she has a lid on it at school and explodes at home.

If you suddenly become more authoritarian with a struggling child, expect fireworks.

My daughter is 10 and has diagnosed sensory issues and suspected ASD/Autism as well. She is like your daughter. A different child at school. She has massive sensory issues though so alot of it is that and hormones combined. Very very difficult. Talking TV may not help but talking to her and getting to the root of the behaviour might help.

OP my DD is 10 and exactly the same. Exactly. In fact probably worse. I am at my wits end. I really don't know how much more I can cope with.

I am sure you have lots & lots of worse incidences too that you haven't mentioned. Like me.

I am trying to do some work with her around her motions and managing them better but it's hard .
I don't know what I'm doing.

I am grateful for your thread .

If she could control her temper, she would. She needs strategies not punishment. Explain to her that she can never hit you or her sister again. I would tell her that it is very serious and she needs help with it. Then I would get her a counsellor. A good one will help her recognise when she is losing control and help her to find alternative ways of dealing with it. If you want it to happen quickly, you will probably have to pay for it.

I agree with the PP who said try to avoid giving consequences on the fly. Better to say, “DD there will be a consequence for that behaviour, I need to think about what is appropriate”.

Also gives a chance to discuss with other parent if (like me) me) you are not always on the same page re consequences.

Far better to take a moment than impose too harsh a consequence and have to back down later. Has taken me a LONG time to learn this (DH is still working on it 🙄)

Dear god what an awful statement, "maybe the shame would help".

A consequence of not going to a family party she wants to attend is enough. Shame is NEVER appropriate, necessary or helpful to introduce into a child's life. Ffs. Shame doesn't do anything but cause harm to a child.

Follow thru with the consequence shows your a good parent and you mean what you say. Hopefully she will see her behaviour is wrong and how sad it is to miss out. Have you sat her down and chatted with her one to one firmly saying how its unacceptable that behaviour and maybe try to find out why she does it at home. Good luck and enjoy your family party 🙂

My daughter 8.5 is very similar at the moment. We are going through ADHD assessment at school. The past 6 months have been worse than usual with her emotional regulation but coincides with hormonal changes at this age. She also explodes when she’s been overstimulated and too much sugar. She may be masking during the day and exploding at home? my daughter never shouts or hits out at school.

It might well be hormonal however she can* *must control herself.
Can you imagine the outrage if at 16 she hit a boyfriend and blamed it on her hormones?
We have moved past the narrative that women and girls are at the mercy of their hormones!
I have a 16 year old and 12 year old and neither of them would hit me or each other, we have had arguments etc but they know to walk away (as do I). I have no issue with showing them their actions have consequences so if either of my children behaved like your daughter has they would not be enjoying a family party. Once they realise you mean business OP it's amazing how much better they can behave and how much control they have.
Obviously this is discounting any SEN.

If consequences aren’t working, you need to go a bit deeper into the behaviour rather than upping the consequences.

look at the triggers for the behaviours, the settings, what’s going on before the explosions?

she may need structured transition/downtime after school if she’s poured a lot of energy into impulse control.

take a close look at sibling dynamics. Sometimes the triggers are subtle and invisible (my dd was setting off my ds with a snarky look)

google “emotional regulation” for some great resources on building skills

This is a child who does not experience a predictable and reliable parent. She knows that no matter what she does her mum will not follow through with sanctions and consquences. She has no scaffolding under her feet.

She may or may not have diagnoses of disorders, but ultimately this is not rocket science. Children who dont experience a strong, reliable authority figure will feel and behave in an out of control manner, this is what she is expressing.

I would be very honest with her. I’d tell her you feel sad because you’d really love her to come to the party but as her mum you need to help her to stop using violence. Make sure she knows you love her and her behaviour is the problem not her. Lots of compliments and positive praise with clear, firm boundaries. If there is no improvement I would talk to the school about SEN and to SS about parenting classes.

It’s harsh but I think you have done well here OP. You are obviously at the end of your tether with her vile behaviour. You can say it along the lines of ‘if you behave like that at home with us and your sister, how can I trust you not to do it with the whole family there’. She’s 9, not 2, she will get the message.

I know she will expect us to relent on this

One of best bits of parenting advice I was given was when issuing ultimatums/consequences to a child always make sure it’s something you will actually do and then carry it out. I am not saying you do this OP, but so many parents come up with very harsh or unenforceable consequences and the child knows the parents will back down.
My eldest is 13 now and it’s very rare I actually have to act on the consequence now because he knows it will happen. His Achilles heel is Wi-Fi even thoughts of no Wi-Fi terrifies him.
I would be inclined to be open and honest with her and say you don’t want to carry out punishments as you love her, but behaviour such as hitting is not acceptable and has to stop and that there has to be consequences.
When DS was diagnosed with ASD we had a workshop where they said to view bad behaviour as a symptom. When it happens you need to look for the cause and address the cause. I think this advice can apply to all children.
Best of luck OP.

I don’t think she has any additional needs. Appears to be quite academic

You can be extremely academic and also have additional needs