Private schools and future privilege

DS's private school also makes life easier for their teachers. It's located in a very expensive part of London and the school owns properties locally which they rent to the teachers at an affordable rent. They don't seem to struggle to find and retain good teachers, including shortage areas like maths and physics, perhaps for this reason.

It's amazing though how when you look into the backgrounds of those children/]families you find reasons for the behaviour.

I've taught in state and private. There are "problem families" in the private sector too but they (and the schools) have more money to throw at the issues. People really shouldn't make the mistake of thinking more money makes people better at parenting or more suitable to do it. It does make therapy more affordable!

The problem is that some parents don't give a shit about their children. Very few of these parents will fork out money for private education so they will nearly all go to state schools. They cause problems and ruin the education for the kids who actually want to learn. They need to be expelled at the first opportunity instead of this whole insane "inclusion" mantra.

Yes, that's true of engineering (although the UK seems to educate a great many foreign engineers) but with sports, the arts, classics, modern foreign languages, the experience would be rather different at e.g. Dulwich College than the comprehensives - not because of lack of talent but because of the curriculum offer, the staff to student ratio and the equipment and facilities available.

Plus sadly some occupations expect you to work for free while you get established.

I went to a private school and it destroyed me tbh. Set me off on to the ''not good enough'' train of though.

Things may be different now but I was put in to the bottom stream, named NU as in not university. Soul-crushing. Took me 30 years and some therapy to get it out of me. Not sure it'll ever be completely out of me. I'm white and sound 'posh' or relatively so in my own country (also not the UK)
The reality is that I'm a single parent with a very modest salary and life so I think sometimes my accent or something about me rankles a dislike in the (insecure) people who are around me in my real life. Only in touch with 3 people from school, one has done very well and is very confident in the higher up echelons of society! and I disguise a side of myself when I'm with her. Another is a bit of a hippy so I feel like she's exempt! and the other is like me, leading a conventional life, working, but going to private school never served her. She was in the middle stream though, not so soul-destroying.

Depends on your industry surely? I'm an engineer, there is zero chance I will get onto a project if I can't do the basic job to hand. It does not matter what your old school tie is if you can't pass a technical interview you will not be getting the role. Of course there are connections that are developed during any career but in my experience these largely off the back of being good at your job and not being a twat.

I agree with @NashvilleQueen's post in general terms but the issue of improving the "local state school" isn't really an issue somewhere like Dulwich. State schools in those areas are bursting with able young people and with committed middle class parents, who are often immigrants.

The private schools are a bit of a safety valve for the overcrowding and are also full of the DC of motivated immigrants.

I live in an adjacent Borough and there is no way the local state primaries could absorb the couple of thousand DC at the private primaries.

The picture at secondary is more complicated as people can, and do, travel long distances/move for certain schools and the state schools that admit on distance have tiny catchments.

Well there are public schools and there are public schools, and there is rampant snobbery at play even within the independent sector. Most public schools are institutions that nobody has heard of that offer small well behaved classes, decent facilities, teachers who give a shit and a few nice to have bolt on extras (outdoor pursuits etc). They do not 'open doors' to plumb jobs due to your old school tie and are lumped with the comps as objects of mockery by the like who attend Harrow, Eton, Marlborough, Shrewsbury, Charterhouse etc I went to a very minor public school and the biggest thing it gave me was a kick up the arse insofar as raising my expectations and nudging me in the direction of university. Most of the parents there were middle class professional types as opposed to Eton style Lord And Lady Snot millionaires. As pointed out already these schools are selective and have zero obligation to keep on disruptive kids.

Connections affect everything - from careers advice, opportunities for work experience, summer jobs, to internships, industry placements, interviews for graduate training schemes. Connections alone won't cut it, but the effect of the above is cumulative and just having good grades and a good work ethic isn't enough to ensure a level playing field.

In our friendship group there is genuinely no difference between those of us that were privately educated and those that weren’t. Actually thinking about it the state educated ones have done objectively better.

You're buying your child an advantage in life. That's the bottom line. Whether that's through smaller class sizes, a broader curriculum or the opportunity to rub shoulders with potential connections it all really amounts to the same thing. Parents who choose this route often say 'I have worked hard to give my child that chance at advancement and that's how I choose to spend my money' and it's difficult to argue with the logic of an individual parent making that choice for their child.

The issue however is what's left in the wake of that decision. If everyone who can pay chooses to opt out there's little incentive to care about what happens to those in state education.

I wonder how many MN'rs who pay for education ever worry about whether their local state school succeeds. And when people don't care about the wider system means that the vast majority of children are impacted.

My dds all girls state school streams ruthlessly is super strict and gets the best results in the county - same as those for the girls private so I have no “push” factor to go private. The outlay would be massive and I don’t think worth it. It’s nuanced though depends on state options available.

Also not sure about the connections thing so much now. Firms are super careful to be fair blind cvs diversity etc. Dh v senior in his firm Dd doing law no way could he give her a job would be totally unacceptable.

Sorry that link is just to the posts of the person who started it - browse the whole thread as there was a lot of useful info about admissions and travel times for your area and adjacent areas.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/secondary/4699013-southwark-and-lambeth-secondaries?postsby=Cinnamonandcoal hi OP, I think you will find this thread useful. Dulwich is an unusual and very specific area and you need local advice.

Another thing to factor in OP, is that when they apply to uni, their grades are contextualised against the average grade profile of their school.

So a student applying from say, Alleyns, with A star, A star, A will be seen as "quite good" because many / most (?) of them will have that grade profile. Whereas a student from a comprehensive applying with exactly the same grades would be seen as "outstanding" because perhaps the average grade profile in that comprehensive is B, B, C. Everything is contextualised at the point of uni admissions.

We have already had PMs on the UK from poor backgrounds. I don't think class is the biggest issue, education certainly is though.

I'm a single mum with a good career. I manage the private school fees via the school plan thing so you pay monthly.

I moved out to Oxfordshire to access the slightly more affordable private schools in Oxford AND to buy a bigger house.

If affordability is the key issue you might need to think a bit broader.

But private school every time.

I think it’s the privilege from their family, in large part. Now it’s not as easy to hand jobs to your mates (unless it’s Govt PPE contracts…) it’s more aspiration, parents having good jobs and high status so encouraging kids to aim higher, often high caste Asian migrants etc.

It’s that, not the value added of private school that does it.

When a kid from hull or blackpool can grow up going to a local school with an average poorer lifestyle, can ever become the prime minister, that will mean the county has made changes to schools. The rich, politicians, leaders of the country, would never send their kids to most schools, because they know private/ public schools will give them that life

state schools cant just chuck students out if they are going to affect the statistics badly.

Some state schools do, or in some cases did until they got caught.

I went to a college that did that and a couple of my nephews went to selective state schools that did that. They didn't expel pupils unless they had to, but made it clear if you weren't meeting their standards you had to leave.

Your can't do a PGCE to teach a subject if you don't have an undergraduate degree in it.

One of my friends has degrees in science and technology.

When he did his PGCE he was told he had to be a science teacher because his undergraduate degree was in science. This was even though he had just left the technology sector to become a teacher.

However when he taught at tertiary level in the private sector he was allowed to teach technology.

Incidentally when their have been tutor schemes in state schools they just expect the tutor to have a degree in the subject or a closely aligned subject.

One isn't necessarily better than the other. It is just the state sector has government rules imposed on it to ensure teachers meet a minimum standard. I've heard horror stories of teachers who have been made to cover a subject they struggle with.

Public schools are less competitive for entry than grammar schools.

If you think people get hired or win contracts on the basis purely of social connections you are very mistaken.

A social connection might be beneficial for having a conversation with someone during which an opportunity becomes apparent. Frankly that connection could be from any common factor from sharing a hobby/religion or going to the same coffee shop. People don't ask what school you went to when you meet them for the first time.

You have to be on crack if you think companies hand out contracts for the old school tie. Seriously? Do you live in the real world? I am not even sure this ever happened even a 100 years ago. How do you think HR departments and procurement departments work?

This.