Bizarre incident on train...

I haven't heard anyone say be a gentleman. Ladies first is always said by men to women. Boys don't hit girls might be said to small children but not to grown men and as for the comment about romcoms they're almost always written by men. I've never slapped a bloke round the face, have never seen it happen and have never heard of a woman doing it. It's just a misogynistic trope that women can't control their feelings or win an argument in any other way. But if you're basing your opinion on how men/women behave on romcoms then maybe that explains your lack of understanding of the real world.

Well if that's what you take from this thread then you're not all for the gift of fear at all.

Honestly, how patronising can one get about a woman (the OP) whose instincts about the behaviour of some bloke told her something wasn't right and gave her the creeps. How the hell does that turn into "concluded that it's a perception thing as the OP finds men 'creepy'.''

Redqueenheart as I have said previously, rude or not isn't the point ..the point is your instincts told you something and that is absolutely the priority. NEVER
ignore instincts, too many women have suffered because they didn't!

Strange thing is, it's women telling other women they're
paranoid, impolite, misandrist, and live their lives in terror of every man

Well I reckon its men on here "pretending" to be women. Who wins if we convince a lot of women to always be kind, always smile, screw your boundaries? Men win as always.

I'm all for the gift of fear. I just wonder if it's morphed into the gift of antisocial sarkiness for the sake of it sometimes.

Read ‘The Gift of Fear’ we should never ignore our instincts

Absolutely! The priority is one's instincts, NOT whether some bloke "meant well" or avoiding "upsetting him"! ! if he did mean well then, he needs awareness raising on the potential impact of his behaviour on women!!

Quite! The point is if a woman is uncomfortable then the priority is to move out of that instinctively sense discomfort/potential danger. Why would one hang around worrying about not being rude!! Ofcourse this bloke may be not neuro typical, he may just be friendly ...but on the other hand ...! Why on earth would anyone think that the OP should consider these when her instincts are "uncomfortable!"

@CallTheMobWife brilliant. Thanks for putting it so well. Yes we are worth having boundaries, we should not have to smile or be kind or chat to men (or women) we dont know and dont want to get to know. And if that's called rude, well I'm ok with being called rude and worse (let's face it weve all been called names before) so long as men especially leave me the fuck alone.

You need to be able to make your own decision based on how you feel at a particular time. The girls shouldn't have got involved. Do you feel you were rude? Or you being talked into feeling like you were. You may have been but it is a non question. Equally you may have been freaked out. Is anyone on the thread, who seems to know exactly what what was going on, asked if you have had any past experiences?

I'm a northern lass. The London tube intimidates me! Simply because I don't understand the etiquette!
Yep "up north", we talk to random strangers, we smile, we strike up conversations and can hear people's life stories in the shortest of time frames! That said! If someone invades your private space and makes you feel uncomfortable, even "up north", you should feel comfortable and confident enough to tell someone to go away!
What the poster didn't say was the accent of the women! Now if they weren't from London or weren't watching the posters obvious discomfort and just heard the comment she made as she stood up, maybe it did seem rude! Maybe after a long day and a tiring one it did come across as a bit abrupt! BUT the poster did state she felt uncomfortable therefore she had every right to tell the man to back off! Regardless if anyone else thought she was rude or not! Surely we don't live in societies were we need to consider people's opinions who are making us feel threatened in any way!
Hope the poster is OK!

i think it’s definately good to be cautious, but this thread is painting every single man who approaches a woman in a public place to be some kind of sex crazied lunatic warewolf who, once they pick the scent of a fertile female will stop at nothing till they have either murdered or raped?

That’s quite minimising of women’s genuine concerns and actually feels like you’re laughing at women for being cautious when it could keep them out of dangerous situations.

this guy on the tube clearly was lacking social skills, maybe he had LD? But they don’t sound like a terror?

Again, this isn’t helpful. I don’t want to rewrite out my experience again as every time I do I relive it, but the man who assaulted me just asked a ‘genuine question’ and then proceeded to follow me harrass me and assault me (all in front of a packed train where people did nothing). So excuse women for being wary.

Experience has made me cautious and yes not every man is a danger but when your experience is that men who strike up conversation on public transport either end up getting aggressive if you reject them or worse then that is your reaction. And yes being rude or overreacting I’d always better than the alternative.

Of course I, and others who agree with me, don’t want women walking around scared of every man that approaches them but to gaslight them that they’re just being silly if they listen to their instincts or that they need to prioritise mens feelings over their own safety is irresponsible and dangerous.

If I hadn’t acted when I did and pretended to exit the train when he followed me getting off then worse could’ve happened to me.

I suggest you and anyone else who sees this reads The Gift of Fear

THAT is what's rude - looking at someone else's phone without their express permission. You would be absolutely bloody rude to look, let alone accost a stranger.

@Redqueenheart did nothing that was rude. The main who intruded on her, looked over her shoulder at her phone, and then expected her to engage with him, was the rude person.

Women owe random men ABSO-fucking-LUTELY NOTHING.

You have more patience than me OP, I would have said "do you mind" in a very loud voice the second he fidgeted closer to me! 🤣🤣 but then I'm "rude" like that 🤣🤣

But if you say you don't want to talk to someone, that is deemed as being rude.

Apparently it's not rude to demand engagement from strangers but it is rude to refuse it.

You were 100% correct OP, the man and the women opposite were wrong.

Also with the tube (outside of busy times) one stop can change it from being 10 people and you in a carriage to just 1 person and you in a few seconds.

*’It clearly wasn't a threatening situation (and yes, I've used the tube for decades, including daily when I worked in the City.)

What a naïve thing to say. Plenty of sexual harassment and assault incidents start with the premise of a "polite" (yet intrusive and disrespectful of social norms) conversation.’*

^ this

NC as this story would be outing and my partner is on MNbut:
I met my partner in an airport lounge. I am glad they didn’t think I was trying to sexually assault them when I brought up something on the tele. We’ve had a lovely marriage. When I see a couple that look like they are just getting to know each other, in an airport , or tbf in any situation, it makes me really happy cause of how things ended up with us.
i think it’s definately good to be cautious, but this thread is painting every single man who approaches a woman in a public place to be some kind of sex crazied lunatic warewolf who, once they pick the scent of a fertile female will stop at nothing till they have either murdered or raped?
That is the bizarre thing!
this guy on the tube clearly was lacking social skills, maybe he had LD? But they don’t sound like a terror? And the others around also clearly thought she was rude too.
Safety is important but it would make me really sad if young people weren’t able to meet each other in public places anymore due to the ‘social interaction police’ on MN where only ‘hunky guys from Colgate commercials’ were allowed to approach women.

Tbh i rarely hear those phrases these days, in the 60's and 70's yes but i think they've fallen out of usage rather a lot.

(If a woman had asked about the photos, would she have reacted as she did? Nope.)

Well no, because if a woman did that (and I have never had such an encounter with a woman in public, but have had dozens with men... funny that...), the motivation is probably not sexual, whereas with a man it probably is. That's just the facts.

I can't quite understand why people think the OP was in the right to be so rude.
Even if this man was being nosey, or trying to chat her up, it didn't warrant such a rude reply. Just so unnecessary. She could easily have just said Oh, pics of an exhibition' or even 'Oh, that's private'.

Because every woman who has ample experience of these types of encounters (and you are lucky not to be among their number) knows that if you're courteous or show the merest hint of friendliness, or not even friendliness but simply a lack of open hostility, many men will take that as encouragement to carry on or escalate the conversation. There have even been studies showing that men often think women are flirting when they're just being coolly polite. This man had already shown he had a disregard for social norms by sitting too close and commenting on the content of a stranger's phone, so there's good reason to believe that at the very least he would fail to understand less direct cues (if simply neurodivergent yet harmless). Or worse - if he was a predator he would take OP's failure to assert that first boundary as a sign that she will be unable to assert further boundaries should he wish to test them. Because that's how predatory men work.

It clearly wasn't a threatening situation (and yes, I've used the tube for decades, including daily when I worked in the City.)

What a naïve thing to say. Plenty of sexual harassment and assault incidents start with the premise of a "polite" (yet intrusive and disrespectful of social norms) conversation.

I'm not sure who really has a vested interest in women ignoring their instincts, or devoting their time and attention to unwanted, intrusive male strangers. Oh, wait ...
If I'd felt that uncomfortable, I would have moved seats before he said anything.

It’s nice to be nice.

Fuck that noise. And that's not nearly as impolite as what I could have said.

Quite often tbf....

"Be a gentleman"

"Ladies first"

"Boys don't hit girls" (although it's socially acceptable for women to wallop men around the face, especially in romcoms which have a primarily female audience. Nobody ever complains about that).

Just sayin.

Well done you. I’d have cussed the two women out too.

Well done OP for listening to your gut.

HE was rude and you did exactly the right thing by quickly extracting yourself from the situation.

Being "polite" in these situations rarely works.