Active discussions

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Bizarre incident on train...

737 replies

Redqueenheart · 11/10/2022 18:34

I had a rather unpleasant experience on my way home today on the London tube and I wonder how other people would have reacted.

I was sitting in a tube carriage and looking at images and videos I had taken from an art exhibition I visited earlier. Was really tired and just wanted to mine my own business.

A man comes in and seats next to me, fidgeting and getting a bit too close for comfort. I ignore him.

He then asks me ''What is that?''. I realise he is now looking at my phone and expects me to tell him what the picture I am looking at is.

I snap back ''That is my phone and there is something called privacy''.

To my surprise two young women who were sitting on the other said of me get involved and say ''that was rude, he was only asking you a question''.

At that point I had enough and said something in the line of ''My pictures are private and none of your business'' and moved to a different seat on the other side of the train. Heard the girls snigger but there was no more interaction after that.

I really don't get why on earth the guy thought it was OK to barge into my space and then start staring at my phone and demand my attention and why these two women actually thought it appropriate to defend him...

Afterwards I did ask myself if this was an attempt to distract me while one them would try to get something from my bag but even as it stands I was absolutely furious about these people's behaviour.

I am quite curious to hear how other people would have reacted.

OP posts:
Goosygandy · 17/10/2022 08:06

Liz1tummypain · 17/10/2022 07:41

This.

Incidentally I haven't joked on this subject in anything I've said.

Show quote history

Oh well, if you say that's what we should do, obviously that's the clincher 🙄.

Despite the women who've said it made the situation worse.

I see you're trying to get the last word, then! 🤣

Liz1tummypain · 17/10/2022 07:41

ToooMuchToDo · 16/10/2022 23:14

This.

I think you were rude.

Show quote history

This.

Incidentally I haven't joked on this subject in anything I've said.

Goosygandy · 17/10/2022 04:13

Novum · 16/10/2022 23:16

It's very easy to tell the difference and we should not be telling other women to ignore their own instincts ever. It's naive in the extreme and could be dangerous. The OP is in a much better position to judge this man than anyone else on this thread. And I trust her judgement much more than yours or any of the other apologists.

I'm not apologising for anything, but I tend to base my views on evidence rather than feelings. I've travelled on the tube all my life and I too have had my share of creepy encounters. The trouble is that nothing OP has said makes it clear that that's what this was, as opposed to someone being a bit too nosy - and I've encountered that one too, from women. OP says she's from the countryside and it's not too clear that she is used to the reality of travelling by tube when, even sitting down, you will almost inevitably be touching the person next to you unless you are child size, and personal space isn't really a thing.

I use evidence + feelings. Feelings are not just some fluffy, redundant notion. They developed to provide us with information to help us survive. Quite often it's feelings that have got me out of dangerous situations because we're often socialised to be polite above all other things.

I've travelled on the tube all my life too.

I disagree that what the OP says doesn't suggest it was creepy. The sitting too close to her, fidgeting, looking over her shoulder and then commenting, together indicate creepiness. She doesn't have to be certain beyond reasonable doubt, it's not a court of law, she just has to have concerns. It's very patronising of you to dismiss her as some naive person from the countryside who doesn't understand how the tube works. It's easy to tell the difference between someone who can't avoid touching you to someone being deliberately intrusive.

MyrtlethePurpleTurtle · 17/10/2022 01:59

Novum · 16/10/2022 23:10

OP doesn't say that the man was manspreading arms or legs.

Show quote history

She does in one of her follow on posts in which the man’s behaviour becomes more and more egregious

ArabellaScott · 16/10/2022 23:30

Cannot believe people are still here chastising a woman for dealing assertively with a man invading her personal space. I suspect some of them have reasons.

We should all be so rude.

RisingSunn · 16/10/2022 23:23

I would have just casually said ‘some pics from an event’ and kept scrolling…

I don’t know, maybe because I was born and raised in London, I don’t find what he did/said that out there..

Galaktoboureko · 16/10/2022 23:17

Novum · 16/10/2022 23:10

OP doesn't say that the man was manspreading arms or legs.

Show quote history

Maybe OP is a larger lady and can't fit in the seat properly.

(sorry, I'm a bit tipsy. 😂).

Novum · 16/10/2022 23:16

It's very easy to tell the difference and we should not be telling other women to ignore their own instincts ever. It's naive in the extreme and could be dangerous. The OP is in a much better position to judge this man than anyone else on this thread. And I trust her judgement much more than yours or any of the other apologists.

I'm not apologising for anything, but I tend to base my views on evidence rather than feelings. I've travelled on the tube all my life and I too have had my share of creepy encounters. The trouble is that nothing OP has said makes it clear that that's what this was, as opposed to someone being a bit too nosy - and I've encountered that one too, from women. OP says she's from the countryside and it's not too clear that she is used to the reality of travelling by tube when, even sitting down, you will almost inevitably be touching the person next to you unless you are child size, and personal space isn't really a thing.

Galaktoboureko · 16/10/2022 23:15

Why are you skipping the points of OP being touched unnecessarily and deliberately?

Why are you skipping the fact that I'm replying to a post discussing his probable hidden disability? And why are you embellishing the story with 'deliberate' touching when the OP just said he sat 'too close for comfort'.

The 'fidgeting' bit would make most people suspect he was in some way disabled, which is why the other woman called out OPs prejudice in a situation where women would normally try and help another if the man seemed genuinely threatening.

ToooMuchToDo · 16/10/2022 23:14

ouch321 · 11/10/2022 18:48

I would have simply said 'pics from an an exhibition' with a look to make it clear I wasn't interested in chatting.

I was born and have grown up in London but I don't see someone attempting chit chat as deserving of the outrage and snarky response you gave.

This.

I think you were rude.

Novum · 16/10/2022 23:10

littleburn · 13/10/2022 08:13

I took that to mean being unnecessarily close. So yes the tube seats are small, but you actively try to not have your legs and arms touching the person next to you, for example. I've had plenty of men ignore this and manspread their arms and legs into my space. It's ignorant at best, deliberate at worst. And I'm pretty certain they don't do it to other men.

Show quote history

OP doesn't say that the man was manspreading arms or legs.

Novum · 16/10/2022 23:08

But nice try. Also I think we tend to be able to spell where I am from. You know ''countryside'' rather than ''country side''...

You really don't help yourself with this type of comment, OP.

ZiriForEver · 16/10/2022 23:04

Sorry broken automatic formatting.
Men is 1
OP 2
Viewers 3

ZiriForEver · 16/10/2022 23:03

Galaktoboureko · 16/10/2022 22:27

Apparently the OP who threw a public strop when spoken to.

Show quote history

Why are you skipping the points of OP being touched unnecessarily and deliberately?

I see 2 parties throwing something in public and none of them is the OP.

Let's have a look once more:

  1. The men was way beyond rude, physically encroaching into OPs private space. -deliberate unprovoked action, well beyond rude.

2)OP reacted and moved herself out of it

-forced reaction, as the situation was already happening with her in it. Maybe not exactly polite, but that is hardly a requirement here.

  1. viewers who had no skin in it, probably not even full information, but decided to loudly comment -unnecessary public action, maybe throwing a public strop couldwbe used here? Even without being spoken too first...
AutumnCrow · 16/10/2022 22:54

Yup. Fuck being nice; but stay safe out there.

jammydodgersforever · 16/10/2022 22:40

I'd be cautious about being overly blunt and rude. You're absolutely well within your rights, but sadly you could have invited trouble for yourself.
Lived in London all my life, loads of nutters on the tube. A short 'just something private I'm into' and putting phone away would have been better IMO. You shouldn't HAVE to do this, you should be able to freely rebuff anyone who invades your personal space, but I think you dodged a potentially bad outcome.

Goosygandy · 16/10/2022 22:38

NotMyDayJob · 16/10/2022 21:35

Are you actually insane? What media brainwashing about perceived situations?

Show quote history

Exactly. The media if anything tries to brainwash us to be nice, like many of the people (men?) on this thread.

Galaktoboureko · 16/10/2022 22:27

LouDeLou · 16/10/2022 22:11

OH MY GOD who gives a FUCK?’

Show quote history

Apparently the OP who threw a public strop when spoken to.

LouDeLou · 16/10/2022 22:11

Devora13 · 15/10/2022 20:08

I wonder if he had a hidden disability? Being direct and not understanding social boundaries can often go along with these conditions.

OH MY GOD who gives a FUCK?’

NotMyDayJob · 16/10/2022 21:35

Babysitter12 · 16/10/2022 20:47

Could this be a fantasy in your head, instilled by all the brainwashing in the media. You cant live in fear for perceived situations that might not be there

Are you actually insane? What media brainwashing about perceived situations?

knittingaddict · 16/10/2022 21:04

Babysitter12 · 16/10/2022 20:47

Could this be a fantasy in your head, instilled by all the brainwashing in the media. You cant live in fear for perceived situations that might not be there

Because no man ever harassed a woman on public transport. 🙄

MarieIVanArkleStinks · 16/10/2022 20:58

Babysitter12 · 16/10/2022 20:47

Could this be a fantasy in your head, instilled by all the brainwashing in the media. You cant live in fear for perceived situations that might not be there

Being streetwise, savvy and asserting boundaries in situations where you don't feel comfortable is far from 'living in fear'.

It's plain old common sense.

Babysitter12 · 16/10/2022 20:47

Could this be a fantasy in your head, instilled by all the brainwashing in the media. You cant live in fear for perceived situations that might not be there

Goosygandy · 16/10/2022 18:12

Liz1tummypain · 16/10/2022 17:21

What I was suggesting was that " putting someone in their box" is not constructive. A woman just about anywhere can be followed and assaulted irrespective of whether she acts rudely or politely. It is better to try to understand other people's behaviour but if you feel intimidated, to move away. Anyway I won't respond again. Please feel free to have the last word.

Show quote history

Oh, so you were trying, and failing to be funny. Rightho!

As for your contention, it doesn't chime with the evidence, which is why I'm shouting it down. Submissiveness/compliance/politeness, whatever you call it, is not useful and can be dangerous in these situations.

streetsmartwomen.com/what-makes-women-easy-victims-violence/

We have to stop giving girls and young women poor advice that politeness and compliance keeps us safe. It doesn't and is actually less safe.

Liz1tummypain · 16/10/2022 17:21

Goosygandy · 16/10/2022 17:03

i know you would suggest that. And someone on this thread did exactly that and was followed and assaulted. So I'm saying it's bad advice. I'm not sure if you're trying to be funny about the putting someone in a box situation, although if you are you're not succeeding. Alternatively you are lacking the ability to understand metaphors. Never mind, eh.

Show quote history

What I was suggesting was that " putting someone in their box" is not constructive. A woman just about anywhere can be followed and assaulted irrespective of whether she acts rudely or politely. It is better to try to understand other people's behaviour but if you feel intimidated, to move away. Anyway I won't respond again. Please feel free to have the last word.