Bizarre incident on train...

When I was a teen I engaged with random men on the tube all the time! Not happily though, I did it because I didn't know how not to. So rather than tell a man to leave me to my book, I would answer their demands to tell them what I was reading. Or take my headphones off to answer made up questions. Or give them the smile they demanded from me.

It's only as an adult that I've realised men are rude and entitled to demand women be nice' to them! Why can't we just be allowed our own headspace? I can 100% promise that my teen boys don't get asked what they're reading on public transport half as much as I did, or as their female friends do.

If men are so lonely why don't they bother other men for 'friendly chat'?

I have never in all the time I've been on the tube (40 years plus) had a woman invade my personal space, fidget around me or engage me in unwanted conversations.

People have talked to me when I am not engrossed in something else. That's fine. This is not what happened here.

I have experienced this countless times with men. Funnily enough zero times since I reached the age of fifty. Funny that...

It's like the 'lonely' men who only try and befriend young women in the office and never middle aged women their own age.

If you think that having no boundaries means that you were brought up better then you're sadly mistaken. We do not have to engage with complete strangers with unwanted conversations, particularly when they are already invading our personal space. I hope you haven't brought up any male children to think that that's acceptable.

I've thought that for a while. There are so many of these threads where posters denigrate a woman for standing up for herself. It's really only happened in the last couple of years, so I do wonder.

Such a low bar. So we have to experience groping or threatening behaviour for us to be able to speak up for ourselves? No wonder there is such male entitlement by some men if we expect so little and are so scathing towards women who stand up to these inadequates.

It's gobsmacking isn't it?

This is slightly off topic but I was brought up in a (working class, rural) area where people speak directly. I really had to work hard when I moved into a London professional environment to pretty up my communication style so people didn't find it 'rude' (or as I would call it 'clear'.)

Even now 20 years down the line I'm sometimes considered 'terse' and 'curt' despite all my 'do you mind if' and 'I'm sure you're busy but'. For example I replied to a woman wanting something I put on Whatsapp group with "No sorry, it's taken." and my own teenager said I sounded rude. WTF. Apparently I should be doing "Thanks for your interest. I regret to inform you...I really hope you get what you're looking for." I HATE IT. Speaking directly in plain language is not rude.

I had a guy read my note pad as I was jotting some stuff down for work, I wrote “I can see you reading this dick face” and he stopped.

😂 I bloody love this. 😂

It was a clumsy pick up attempt. The girls probably thought you were looking at something dodgy.
you wisely moved. No further thought necessary.

I wish I'd been more assertive as a younger woman as I was 'nice' too often and ended up in really uncomfortable situations where I should have just told the man in question to fuck off.

This with bells on.

Why in the fuck should we be pleasant and polite to these men?
Because maybe he just meant well.

So much hypocrisy here. If the man had been whoever is the poster celebrity crush, no doubt the response would have been totally different.

Many happy couples have net in similar circumstances. Not everyone protects their personal space like it is some massively valuable jewel. We are not that special!

You can. I don't want to start by being pleasant to someone who has already overstepped. I don't have to be pleasant, or polite, to a man who is in my personal space, for no good reason.

Why in the fuck should we be pleasant and polite to these men?

Why? It came straight after the sentence about people rolling out autism as a reason for inappropriate behaviour. It was obvious what that person meant and she/he was right.

This with bells on!

I can't usually stop myself from fawning or placating or sometimes freezing. It's a trauma response and it leaves me feeling full of self loathing afterwards.

It's fantastic you asserted your boundaries. Unfortunately it's not currently fashionable, hence the reaction of the young girls opposite.

Assertiveness and rudeness are totally different things. You can be assertive and polite. Rudeness is often defined by the tone used to say something.

You can start by being pleasant and grow assertive if the person does not respond to the polite request.

to the polite request.

The poster of that comment is autistic. Are you minimising how they feel? It is offensive to suggest autism as a reason for inappropriate male behaviour
I took the response and comment about offensiveness as the action of the man, not the reference of autism!

It's offensive to people with autism fgs.

To all those apologists on here, please answer this question. Was the man rude to sit next to the op, despite there being other seats available, encroach on her personal space for no good reason and comment on the content of her phone? Was he? Would you have done this? I really want to know.

OP you were not "rude". He was very rude to peer at your phone photos and make comments. Rude and intrusive. I've had weirdos and worse (sexual assault) on public transport and you were right to cut him off at the pass.

I once had a man, similar age to me, looking over the crossword I was doing in the paper. Then asked whether I'd like some help to complete it.
Think it was more hitting on me but really put me off my crossword!

I find 'assertive' is often just another word for rudeness

It's just directness, but some people find that rude or intimidating. If the OP had said "Fuck off!" that would have been rude, but saying "It's private," was just direct.

If you find assertive another word for rude, you don't know what either word means. And you're a big part of the problem.
I fear for the children of women like this. You're teaching your daughters to never assert themselves and your sons to see assertiveness as rudeness. You're not respecting either and you'e helping to push them both into dangerous situations.

You were not rude. He was out of order, so were the other women. That’s why lots of people wear headphones on the tube, to avoid pushy weirdos like this.

Well I'd rather my daughters be thought of as rude than 'being nice' and ending up in a dangerous or unpleasant situation because they were too conditioned not to say 'please leave me alone' to someone who is making them uncomfortable.

I wish I'd been more assertive as a younger woman as I was 'nice' too often and ended up in really uncomfortable situations where I should have just told the man in question to fuck off.