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Original poster

State vs independent school open days

318 replies

user55875537986543 · 10/10/2022 08:57

Please tell me if I’m BU…

Looking at secondary schools. Have been to 3 independent school open mornings, 3 more to look at. Each school has sent an itinerary of the morning and a clear email so we know what to expect (really helpful when deciding if the children should come or not - not all tours have activities for younger siblings but some do).

Also trying to look at two state options but they have one fixed open evening and that’s it. No flexibility. No option for a smaller tour mid week, no option to speak to a member of staff outside that one evening.

The state schools are over subscribed and so I understand that they don’t massively need to “sell” themselves. But the independent schools are massively oversubscribed too and yet are happy to make time for children and parents to work out which school is the best fit.

Also, all the independent schools have their open days on Saturdays. Which means that most parents can actually make it with some notice.

Just a bit pissed off and needed a rant. I absolutely cannot choose a school based on a rushed evening visit without the chance to ask questions properly.

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user1474145159 · 28/02/2024 11:29

I don't understand why people have to be so rude about OPs post. The minute you mentio private schools it gets peoples back up. Choosing secondary school is a massive decision,for some, and I wouldn't be happy either if I couldn't actually look at the school in advance. It sends a message that they don't care which they don't. Maybe its not their fault that they don't care i. e lack of resources but result is the same

Plumbear2 · 11/10/2022 11:01

Startagsain51. Very sorry to for your lose. We will absolutely be supporting the strike.

Popgoestheweaselagain · 11/10/2022 10:16

Startagain51 · 10/10/2022 20:49

If you had posted 5 years ago, I'd have said definitely go for the state school, get involved, we need someone as intelligent and articulate as you on the governing body, fighting on our side.

Now? Please just send your kids to private schools. Teachers in state schools are beyond breaking point and can't give you what you need. One of my colleagues committed suicide recently. This is the reality that you say you fully understand. You're beyond privileged that you have a choice. Perhaps you could just support us in the forthcoming strike action, we would appreciate it.

Very sorry for your loss.

Toddlerteaplease · 10/10/2022 22:32

It's in the independent schools interests to do them on a Saturday. As you are paying for it!

Motherofacertainage · 10/10/2022 22:29

You've had to compromise a bit to get to the open evening. Welcome to state education! Hopefully you will find when you go that despite them only offering one open evening slot (and when I started teaching there were none offered at all in most schools) you will get a decent flavour of the school, the students and the teachers. I would hope the SENCO will also take time to speak to you. Remember that school staff are already knackered at this point in the term - most of us have had flu/colds/Covid already and are dealing with a myriad of post Covid social issues - but in the best schools we will still smile, answer all your questions and show interest in your child. We are not there as PR agents but as professionals going above and beyond because we want to do a good job.

Original poster
user55875537986543 · 10/10/2022 22:03

@PumpkinPie2016 my point was that when I called the school to say I thought I might not be able to come they didn’t offer a phone call or email. It was just one open evening, nothing more.

I don’t want special treatment but I also don’t want to be rushed and not able to ask the questions I need to know the answers to.

As it is, I have rescheduled work so I can go but will have my children with me which isn’t ideal (fine for the child I’m actually looking for to come). But there we are. Hopefully I can find out enough and hopefully I can snatch some time out of earshot of my children to speak to some staff members!

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PumpkinPie2016 · 10/10/2022 21:48

Sorry but I think you're being a bit unfair. I teach in a state school and we had one open eve. Stayed open until 8pm to give families as long as possible to visit.

The head gave her presentation twice and both she and her deputy were available all evening to answer queries.
We had a designated person answering queries about admissions, the SEND team available as well.

As a curriculum leader, I organised for my team and pupils to run activities so that I could focus on questions about curriculum and GCSE options/post 16 progression. We never stopped all night.

Thankfully, the feedback we received from families was excellent.

All done on a limited budget and on top of an already busy teaching week. We can't offer more slots as we simply don't have capacity to staff them. If anyone has specific questions we are always happy to answer emails and calls.

Original poster
user55875537986543 · 10/10/2022 21:44

@Wiganerbylocal thank you so much

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Wiganerbylocal · 10/10/2022 21:43

Flipping eck OP you have set your expectations of an under resourced state school massively high. They go for what is most doable for he majority and teachers. That means it is not going to revolve around your schedule. Jeez

Original poster
user55875537986543 · 10/10/2022 21:33

@Startagain51 thank you. I have lots of teacher friends in state schools and some of their schools I’d (almost) move counties to get into!

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Startagain51 · 10/10/2022 21:28

Thank you, that is a generous and kind response. I'm also sorry for your loss. There are still some state schools that are truly inspirational places, despite all the odds. They will make time for you, even when they are under such pressure.

I hope you are lucky.

Original poster
user55875537986543 · 10/10/2022 21:28

@fleurdelee not always, no. We have a very high chance of a place at two state schools. So whichever we put first we’re highly likely to get. So we do have a real choice.

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fleurdelee · 10/10/2022 21:24

user55875537986543 · 10/10/2022 09:06

But tell me. How can I choose a school based on one open evening with hundreds of other parents so I can’t have more than a hurried chat with anyone? That’s crackers.

In the state sector you can't really choose a school anyway. It's allocated to you

Original poster
user55875537986543 · 10/10/2022 21:22

@Postapocalypticcowgirl another really great point!

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Postapocalypticcowgirl · 10/10/2022 21:19

The other thing I'd add, just because I'm not sure anyone's mentioned it, there's not any real benefit to a non-selective state school in terms of being oversubscribed. They don't get to pick the students (obviously), so it doesn't really matter if there's 30 or 50 or however many extra students who would really like to come to the school and have put it as their first choice. (And ironically, they may lose out against students who've put the school as their second or third choice).

What does matter is if they've got, say, a PAN of 170, and then 10 extra students get in on appeal- that can start pushing class sizes up to let's say 33 or higher, which is about the level where you start running out of seats and teachers start to complain it's too many students. It makes running practical work difficult in some subjects.

Or worse, if there aren't enough school spaces locally, the school can be asked to take a bulge class, which can be a real logistical problem for the school.

Obviously, schools don't want to be massively under subscribed, but I think the idea for most schools is taking a few under their PAN, so they can easily admit new students as they come to the area, and keep class sizes manageable.

84wood · 10/10/2022 21:15

Lots of private school teachers don’t get paid extra to do an open morning. It’s just expected and accepted.

But you are getting what you pay for. Right from the start.

Original poster
user55875537986543 · 10/10/2022 21:13

@toddlingtortoise ha, nope. That’d be quite the commute for me 😂

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Original poster
user55875537986543 · 10/10/2022 21:12

@toddlingtortoise googles JCOSS

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toddlingtortoise · 10/10/2022 21:10

Of you are looking at JCOSS you’re never going to get a SENCO to talk to you speculatively. They’re totally overwhelmed by parents whose children have SEN and unless you have an EHCP they perfectly reasonably won’t give you the time of day until you have an offer. Why would they? They have so many parents choosing them for their SEN they wouldn’t be able to support the children already there if they met all prospective parents. If it is them, they have had 2 open mornings and an open evening. I think that’s pretty reasonable for any school.

Original poster
user55875537986543 · 10/10/2022 21:06

@Givenuptotally I think @Postapocalypticcowgirl was saying that among the children who will be looking solely at the state schools there will be many in those categories. Nothing else.

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Original poster
user55875537986543 · 10/10/2022 21:04

@Postapocalypticcowgirl you’re right and beyond the information I get from the parents evening I think I’ll have to wait for an offer before I take up any more of their time

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Original poster
user55875537986543 · 10/10/2022 21:02

@Startagain51 I’m so sorry. How horrific. I vote for the government I feel will do the most of all overstretched public services (no prizes for guessing who!).

I know I’m privileged to have a choice. Not to justify it at all, but I have the choice of independent schools because my husband died and so we have insurance money. Without that it would be a lot tighter.

My child is no better or worse than any other. But they are a straight A grade, grade 5 on two instruments age 10 type kid who is kind and absolutely loves school. The type who volunteers for everything - including reading with the reception children twice a week this term. They understand that when you’re part of a school community you represent the school and you do your best. I hope they’d be an asset wherever they go and if they go to the state school I will be nothing but supportive of whichever school they go to and that’s why I need to choose the right school so we don’t get a few terms in and hit bumps in the road.

I haven’t worked in education for years but have spent many years in the NHS and I can’t tell you how crazy the lack of funding makes me. Again, I do what I can. I vote. I am always, always kind to my NHS colleagues when I’m a patient.

I’m so sorry again for your loss.

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Postapocalypticcowgirl · 10/10/2022 21:02

Givenuptotally · 10/10/2022 20:31

Teachers in state schools don't get paid extra for open days

Neither do those in independents. Unfortunately, our jobs are dependent on bums on seats so that means the expectations of staff are going to be greater. Simple economics,

Your contract must specify working x number of Saturdays, or x number of open days, though- beyond whatever you're employed to work during term time? It's not that you get overtime for it, but your salary will be calculated with this in mind.

It's not quite the same, but someone I know who teaches FE has 3 Saturday open days written into their contract, and their salary is calculated with this included. Obviously, they have to recruit, the same as private schools do.

Whereas state staff outside of free schools will be employed on the standard 190 teaching days + 5 inset days contract, and can't really be asked to work on an open day.

Darbs76 · 10/10/2022 21:01

its obvious why isn’t it - money. You need to use other resources to make your decision too, exam results, Ofsted, they are more valuable than a head talk anyway.

Givenuptotally · 10/10/2022 21:01

There will likely be looked after children, there may well be other children who have lost a parent or a close relative, there will be children who are young carers, children who have mental health issues, children applying from out of area who know no-one, children who have other complex issues going on within their family. At this stage, the head of Y7, or the head of pastoral care could spend hours talking to parents who may not even apply to the school

do you think these children never attend private schools?

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