To be finished with voting Tory

ExtraOnion

Then stop voting for individuals and whether or not you think they are “nice” or not - and start scrutinising policies

This!!!!! With extra great big bells on.

Like him or loathe him, Corbyns’ policies would have had a massive impact on social inequality.

I have voted Tory twice now and it's looking like I will again. YANBU I think you should vote who you feel at that time.

I assume they think it makes them look like they are ideologically pure, that they are ever so caring and just all round GOOD people.

Like when a naive young soul is horrified at animal testing and declares it is all evil, and they’d never hurt an animal and it should be banned.

No shades of grey. Just black and white. Good and bad. No further critical thinking or facts required.

It comes across to me as a woefully ignorant position. Most intelligent people I know change their voting pattern to adapt to changing policies/situations. And manage to understand that not everyone who disagrees with their approach is ‘morally bereft’.

I have never, and will never, vote Tory.

They are morally bereft.

I think all Tory voters are BU.

They've got my vote now they've acknowledged the woman's rights issue.

Thing is, even if you do change your vote, the perception that the cost of living crisis, prices, housing, which all need serious attention won't be reversed. By the time the next election comes, the pain will have arrived and be fully baked in.

Change your vote - but these problems take a long time to address. And at best, it might change in 2024. That is a few years before the prospect of change. There is no way that any government, conservative or not would call an election early, not with this mess, so you'd be better off working out how to improve your circumstances that blaming people who vote Tory.

Frankly, quite a lot of these fairweather tories are going to suffer anyway from their stupidity and will be in the first in line to say the government should "do" something. They are timewasters who want something for nothing.

Concentrate on helping your community and family instead.

[quote MadnessOfHamsters]@Blossomtoes it matters to me that those poor children are not sterilised/have decades taken off their lifespan purely because an ideology has taken hold of the ones who are supposed to help them.

It matters to me that those pensioners aren’t forced into a mixed sex ward and raped, while the hospital whistles and claims there are no men in there so it didn’t happen.

Also of those things you have listed are important. But to me (and many others it seems) it is more important that we retain the right for vulnerable women and children to safety, dignity, privacy and even for it to be acknowledged that they exist and are disadvantaged because of biological differences.

Once that is lost it will not be won back easily or even within our lifetimes.

I will NOT be told that women need to just keep it shut, and wait our turn patiently until all the other world problems are solved first before we get to us. And I’m sick of being told that the problems in the UK are down to people voting Tory, and not the fact that Labour have made themselves absolutely irrelevant to the majority of the country and downright dangerous to women.

I will vote Tory.

If Labour wants my vote, and if they give a shiny shit about any of those problems you just listed, then THEY can abandon the fringe activist cranks, stand up and be honest about reality, and actually stand a chance of sniffing power again.[/quote]
I'll never vote Tory.

But I read your earlier post, and I can't blame anyone for voting for whichever candidate has demonstrably made the best effort and changes for you in your personal circumstances.

It really doesn't help to demonise all Tory voters as evil puppy killers who steal fivers from orphans to blow their noses on. You will never persuade anyone to your line of thinking if you believe their only reason for feeling differently is that they're Bad And Stupid. It's not a particularly intelligent reasoning process itself.

ALL parties are allowing self ID, both parties now say they want to protect womens spaces etc but one of these parties is led by a proven liar......

How can Labour protect women's spaces if they don't know what a woman is? Keir Starmer said it's wrong to say only women have a cervix, so he clearly pretends he doesn't know what a woman is.

I think people will do what they always do in elections and vote for whatever is best for their family unit. It’s certainly the reason a lot of people here voted Tory in 2019 - low(er) taxes were the prime reason. Johnson has shot his bolt on that one, whatever he says.

People who are frightened about the cost of living will vote according to whichever party is going to help them most. The vast majority of people don’t care a rat’s arse about women’s rights - and that’s at any time but especially if they can’t feed their kids or heat their home.

Ok I’ve read it

He said that "for the vast majority of women, what matters is biology" but added that, regarding those who are born into a gender they do not identify with: "I don't want to stand in the way of supporting and respecting those who find themselves in that position."

It lacks clarity, what do those two lines together mean in practise?

A simple, clear statement and a position on Self ID would be good too.

I think for many the horse has bolted though and Rayner reacted today showing Labour’s position.

marsha

I cut n pasted what Reeves said a few days ago and Starmer backed her up a day or so later.

Its about 4 posts back..... and in this sky article too...

I would be interested on what you think.

news.sky.com/story/doesnt-make-sense-to-ask-men-if-they-are-pregnant-before-a-scan-says-health-secretary-12578887

Recently?

Rayner just doubled down on typical Labour stance today.

Many post they want to see a change in direction from Labour. I very much doubt it will happen.

Take a look at the threads in feminism and see the reactions and on other media too - Labour isn’t doing well from this.

ALL parties are allowing self ID, both parties now say they want to protect womens spaces etc but one of these parties is led by a proven liar......

I’m not ready to throw away rights so easily. Not mine and not dd’s

Especially if Labour win and bring in Self ID it will be very hard to reverse.

Of course I mind. But I’m capable of minding about more than one thing at once. I’m also aware that there are Tory MPs who share Labour’s views and they could easily be the majority of the party at some point.

@MadnessOfHamsters

This is what Labours shadow chancellor had to say on this vital matter, a few days ago.

Ms Reeves said "biological characteristics" were what defined most women but also would not want to exclude people who are born a different gender and go through a gender recognition process from living "the live they choose"

She added that it was also important to ensure that there are "single sex spaces in prisons, in refuges and in sport, which is obviously an issue of topical debate at the moment"

A position mirrored by Starmer a day latter in Bury, if your genuinely interested in Labours position?

Or support the Cons which have almost removed all sporting opportunities for ordinary people, defunded the prison system and closed womens refuge's ?

How are Labour supporters still happy with their stance on self ID and removing women’s rights?

Do you not mind the stance at all?

Absolutely spot on @Alexandra2001. Look at what politicians do, words are cheap.

Yeah, because its not like Boris ever lies and just says what he needs to do to stay in power, is it?

At least he's actually listening to what people want him to say. I'm not sure what's so virtuous about ignoring and sneering at what your voters want and believe, like Labour does!

Trans women going to female prisons and refuge's etc today, yesterday and tomorrow, again are doing so under ... yep you guessed it, his premiership!

So, vote for you like but i'd have thought by now at least some people would have woken up to the fact that what BJ says and what BJ allows or does are too very different things.

@Blossomtoes it matters to me that those poor children are not sterilised/have decades taken off their lifespan purely because an ideology has taken hold of the ones who are supposed to help them.

It matters to me that those pensioners aren’t forced into a mixed sex ward and raped, while the hospital whistles and claims there are no men in there so it didn’t happen.

Also of those things you have listed are important. But to me (and many others it seems) it is more important that we retain the right for vulnerable women and children to safety, dignity, privacy and even for it to be acknowledged that they exist and are disadvantaged because of biological differences.

Once that is lost it will not be won back easily or even within our lifetimes.

I will NOT be told that women need to just keep it shut, and wait our turn patiently until all the other world problems are solved first before we get to us. And I’m sick of being told that the problems in the UK are down to people voting Tory, and not the fact that Labour have made themselves absolutely irrelevant to the majority of the country and downright dangerous to women.

I will vote Tory.

If Labour wants my vote, and if they give a shiny shit about any of those problems you just listed, then THEY can abandon the fringe activist cranks, stand up and be honest about reality, and actually stand a chance of sniffing power again.