To not fit in because I'm working class

Just reading this thread now - 18 months too late! I feel lots of posters don’t really get it.
It’s not so much the financial aspects - it’s knowing things like how to network, get promotions, chair meeting, having the confidence to speak to senior leaders and the confidence to take risks. Ultimately it’s about knowing where to direct your energies to get ahead. You can learn this stuff yourself , model it to your kids and make life easier for the next generation but it takes time and colleagues who have seen all this modelled by parents as they grow up are at an advantage.

Zombie thread.

I really understand how you feel OP. Unless you have been in this situation it’s difficult to comprehend the challenges. DH and I are state educated from two socially and economically deprived towns. He grew up in poverty. I didn’t but I still had a working-class experience growing up. We both went to university and entered very middle-class competitive industries. We’ve succeeded financially and in terms of awards and being recognised as leaders in our fields. So much however is fuelled by our fears of not having a financial safety net and having to be twice as good as our colleagues just to get to the same point.

Hey I'm not a mum or anything or female just seen your post , what your talking about is called imposter syndrome , it's common trust me your work colleagues would experience it if they was moving in upper class circles , you have every right to be in your career , academics is not about fitting in ,if you fit in your not going to shine , be polite and kind if it's warranted and stand your ground when its not, make a difference the in crowd is not the place for that regardless of class cast ,dream big and aim high and be true to yourself.stop comparing yourself and show them with your work of your worth you have a duty as a working class gal to prove a point it will pave ways for future generations of working class people being competent and professional in academic professions , sounds like they are more interested in talking about what they have or doing , boring as paint drying .go get em girl . you are exactly where you belong .

Good for you Sellie. I always call helping your children, feeding them well, telling them bed time stories, cuddling them, picking good schools, helping them with career choices - love, rather than some kind of nasty privilege. Our primary moral duty is to our children and others come after that.

(I liked skiing and to an extent riding because of Enid Blyton and also the Chalet school books as a child from the library, rather than from privilege! So when I took us all skiing when I was in my 20s and then my daughter asked for riding lessons it was probably more because of my childhood reading and how fun it all sounded rather than an attempt to create some kind of cultural capital.....)

interesting post

tbf I was brought up lower middle class and didn’t have houses etc passed to me on a plate. Also didn’t have those important family/friends connections. My dad never earned large money but did earn a little more than average.

however, I am now pretty successful (of my own making / altho I wouldn’t fit in your workplace as I have zero interest in skiing or horse riding!) and I have made lots of connections over the years and got a big network. So much so, that I know 100% That i have the connections to help my son be successful after he finishes uni (studying journalism) - I got him an outstanding internship this summer through someone I know and he will spend 3 months next summer in Dubai doing an internship at the media company my brother is an MD of.

my younger son, altho only 17, will also have similar opportunities simply cos of the network I have. I understand totally that this may give them a perceived unfair advantage…. But if I can build my network myself from nothing, then anyone can, honestly.

now, what I’m trying to say is that yes it’s very real that network and connections are a big factor in potentially helping young people in their careers and that can be a disadvantage to those who don’t have it. But Its also important to know that you can grow those connections yourself as I didn’t have any of that myself when I started my career. I went to loads of industry events, heavily involved in linekdin, I socialised with colleagues (not skiing or horse riding!), I threw myself into all of that over the years. And I’m glad I did as it means I now can call upon my network to maybe help my kids with their development

oh and I never had a partner to do any of this with so It’s not like I had a helping hand from that perspective either

You are not working class , your parents were but you didn’t choose to be and you have created a new life for your self

^ hear, hear!

You don't have to be matching these types of peoples lifestyles at all. They can become like sheep if they all have to do the same things as eachother.. If you like your job and are happy there, it matters not what other people do.. Class has nothing to do with how you go about your life.

The dismissiveness on this thread is sadly unsurprising. I’ve been peripherally involved with the publishing industry in a very small way and found most of those I interacted with to be
a) oxford educated from well-off backgrounds
and
b) oblivious to the fact that the world they move in is incredibly rarefied and ultra-privileged.

None of them I came across were intentionally mean, but our lives has been so different that there were very few points of contact. I went to a comprehensive with 400 pupils in in my yeargroup. I’m sure I met more working class people in a week there than some of them had met in a lifetime.

It was deeply frustrating, partly because they all know how to behave in those circles and I don’t. I was watching The Crown about the Balmoral Test and could see a lot of parallells. There’s an extent to which you can play along, or keep your head down, but I don’t think I’d ever be fully comfortable.

We are not supposed to notice or comment on inequality and all the ways it is perpetuated. To do so is having a chip on your shoulder, or reverse snobbishness.

It’s not just about having a loan to do a PhD though is it. Where are you going to live and how will your rent and other living expenses be paid.
If you have a nice comfortable house and parents who don’t need you to contribute it is soooo much easier to do.

Well said @C8H10N4O2

In fact its everyone's business when organisations shut out talent in favour of self perpetuating croneyism.

I agree and lots of working class people used to become models or actors. Now nepotism ensures that mainly the off-spring of the rich and famous pick up this work.

I don’t think it is their hobbies that the Op objects to but that she is being excluded by their subtle bullying.

StepAwayFromGoogling

If this thread was reversed and this was someone middle class looking down their noses at someone who was working class, people would be all over it. But it's OK the other way round is it? Who are you all to mock other people's hobbies and lifestyles? What business of yours is it if they chose to go skiing or riding? Or spend their money on holidays? FFS. Judgemental load of shit.
............
I agree, it's very snobbish whichever way it goes.

Oh OP - im from a middle class background but not "monied" (parents were more like you, both first in their families to go to higher education and didn't have the leg ups either so didn't have it to give to me and db).

However, I have realised some careers that require very high academic qualifications and hard work, yet relatively low pay, are only possible for those who have family money or have married someone who earns significantly more. The difference isn't always obvious when you first join the industry because the entry level salaries aren't that vastly different to entry level salaries friends who have picked other careers are getting post uni. By 26/27 the big differences become obvious.

I would say cut your losses and look at better paying industries. You might find higher paid industries with similar academic requirements have more people like you.

Also not everyone who goes skiing is MC. My dB who is as rough as a badger's behind goes skiing every year. He earns £19k and roughs it in a dodgy hotel in Bulgaria.

I’ve just lost my job over this. I do the job as well as the next person if not better and I’m better qualified than most, but there has been a constant stream of complaints from my team about my hair, lack of makeup, accent, the fact that I don’t join them on expensive trips, that I’m not a member of their rotary and whatever, my husband having a manual job, lack of friends in high places. Basically they sniff you out if you’re not one of them and they find any stupid excuse to make your position impossible.

[quote Shadowmallow]@bluedodecagon Yeah I'm looking to leave the publushing industry. A lot of what I do at the moment is digital, and I also UX design experience as I've helped to research and build some educational tools and apps over the past few years. Thinking of moving my career more in that direction.[/quote]
Fantastic! Those skills are in great demand.

Don’t rule out educational startups btw. They boomed over the pandemic period. They also may be more open to remote or hybrid working which would enable you to move to a cheaper part of London or even another European city.

OP I can assure you that I don't have a solid MC foundation. My parents are from very WC backgrounds, left school at 16 (DF got no O levels) and remained in the same jobs until they retired. The only reason I would say that I am lower MC (rather than WC) is because they worked up to management within their workplaces over the decades and they were home owners. I've been told though on here that we are aspiring MC rather than actually falling within the class. I feel this blaming one's class roots, in people who are educated and clearly very intelligent people is a very white British thing, where "knowing your station" is the real hindrance.

Then again, I am a bohemian degenerate so take my opinion with a pinch of salt

Also, after reading your recent post, I do understand what you are driving at, and of course there are people who are so familiar with a safety buffer that it might not enter their heads to appreciate how one might move forward having to think differently.

I would suggest the people you are referring to seem to live a little like crabs in a bucket, in the sense that their life experience sounds hermetic and prescription based. Most of my own peer group, or those I knew at uni were a touch more savvy and aware, regardless of class/background. Could it not be the type of people you are associating with rather than their social background? There isn't a stereotypical MC just like there really isn't a stereotypical WC.

I've experienced the opposite to you - made a lot of WC friends in my teens who often made remarks about me being unable to relate or understand them die to having grown up privileged financially. Whilst I was able to acknowledge those differences, it felt a bit 'othering' at the time, and I often felt that I could not express an opinion on something and be taken seriously.

Not all MC have infinite safety nets. Many will get a rude awakening when older or will have to marry strategically to ensure the funds don't run out. Isn't marriage itself a sort of contract for this in some sense?
And monied parents can still fall ill and end up in care, having to sell property to support that. We inherited, but the property paid for care.