PASSPORT COUNTERSIGNING

If you know a teacher in a personal capacity that is completely different.

You can’t issue biometric readers to all the potential employers and landlords

That's a fair point RickiTarr

But perhaps you can get your (subsequent) biometrics (if you lose your passport for e.g.) taken at the Post Office together with a photograph? Then everything would be sent to the Passport Office to match with the data they hold?

Obviously the first passport issued would need the signatories and the first set of biometrics. But it would be done only once. Job done

My mums next door neighbour (butcher) did my kids ones once. And last time I asked a neighbour who is self employed. Both accepted.

@christdoinghisunspecifiedhobby 😆

My DF got his driving licence (full licence, you understand, not just provisional ) by sending off 5s to the post office.

@pointythings

as long as you are registered in your local major town ....

So all the UK would need would be a system of registration fir all citizens. Wonder why they don't seem to have got round to doing that ?

@mustlovegin

Aren't iris scan so much more secure?

Given that they gave up on the iris scanning technology at LHR after years of testing, it seems it might be simple but sadly not error free.

What would false negatives be handled? And , for that matter, distinguished from correct negatives ?

I hear you OP. Is ridiculous. Luckily I vaguely know a friend who teaches otherwise would be in same position.

To all those people saying ‘just ask a bank / dentist’… This doesn’t work: they say no. We got turned down by my lawyer, my bank and my pharmacist before managing to get hold of my teacher friend. Even the branch where I have banked for more than a decade won’t sign my Irish passport application despite my showing them my UK passport etc. They all say ‘you have to ask someone who knows you personally.’

The rules are waaaaay out of date.

Thinking about it Irish ID cards are photocards aren’t they? Is that why the Garda can use them to satisfy themselves that you are you and stamp your passport application?

Who confirms your photo is you for the National ID card in the first place?

Plus, passports are being used by employers and landlords to establish right to work and right to rent. It’s a mandatory duty to check those passports. You can’t issue biometric readers to all the potential employers and landlords. So photos - accurate, true photos are still needed - even in terms of anti-terrorism. It is as important that terrorists can’t steal an identity to rent a flat as it is that they can’t steal an identity to cross borders.

Counter signatures are only for First passports (security risk) and in cases where passport is lost/stolen (security risk) or massively changed appearance (security risk)

Apologies to keep going on about this. But isn't an iris scan and fingerprints a lot more secure? There wouldn't be any security risk there.

Or perhaps make it optional, those who don't want to have these biometric details taken, can keep using the old process and have countersingatories. But it's a massive hassle for everyone involved in my view

You can post them to a friend, if someone you know who meets the criteria isn't local, we did this for our friends in Germany who were sorting out their child's Uk passport.

Ask your kids teacher or deputy head. You can do it all digitally now so they only have to log in to the passport site and confirm the image.

It's a very idiotic rule. My DD's Irish passport application was signed by the local Garda, no problems there.
For my non-Irish passport renewal, I just needed a valid ID card, my old passport and myself. They took the biometric photos and other data there. Sorted within 20 minutes.

I think you used have to know the person for 3 years but they didn't used to ask for so many details about the countersignitory.

Marriage certificates, birth certificates etc are still easily stolen and misused.

You don't even need to steel them, you can go into a Registry office and buy a copy of anyone's Birth Certificate or Marriage Certificate. Effectively they are public documents.

RickiTarr I still prefer the Dutch system. It's so much simpler - as long as you are registered in your local major town, all you have to do is go to the registration centre for your council (this is never far away and there is good public transport pretty much everywhere) with a photograph and your birth certificate or other ID (lots of options) and your debit card. You fill in a form, helped by a trained person at the counter (and they are really good), you pays your money, your passport is there a week later. For a small fee, they post it to you. So much less hassle. Passport fraud is not noticeably higher in the Netherlands than it is in the UK.

Have the rules always been you've needed to be known to someone for two years? I can see from the website that that's the case now, but I could have sworn any random professional could have signed previously!

Counter signatures are only for First passports (security risk) and in cases where passport is lost/stolen (security risk) or massively changed appearance (security risk).

We still used to work solely on non-photographic ID, for everything but passports, when I came of age and it made no sense. It was very easy then to steal an entire identity. Having traceable professionals or business people confirming the identity for photographs is/was an extra plank of security. Marriage certificates, birth certificates etc are still easily stolen and misused.

What we need is a system whereby the photograph for first National ID cards, provisional driving licences or passports are verified by schools or home education officers as a matter of course and nobody gets to 18 without being issued with first photographic ID free of charge.

That would be more convenient and still secure.

[quote skinschool]@RickiTarr 11 in a month's time, so we have the added issue that she will be changing school.[/quote]
@skinschool think once she is over 12, they stop asking for counter signatures on renewals, same as for adults.

The only exceptions are if your old passport is lost or stolen, or if your appearance has massively changed (not just normal growing up).

So as long as you have her old passport, worst case scenario you’ll be able to apply without a counter signature when she turns 12.

Just a hopeful thought.

Are NI licences not issued from DVLA in Swansea the same as the rest of the UK?