DH called my son a prick.

You seem to have drawn a line around him not yet hitting you, but in actual fact, being verbally abusive to your child is just as bad.

I take him on long bike rides to get rid of his nervous energy, I do breathing exercises with him. He has counselling at school to build emotional resilience

And then your DH shouts at him and calls him a prick. An 11 year old.

I know you won't leave him over this, but you need to take a stronger line. Don't just murmur "too far" from the sidelines. You parent your ds the way you see fit. He backs you up in a calm way. If he gets wound up, he goes out for a walk or a drive. But the screaming has to stop. If nothing changes in the dynamic between them it will get worse when he hits his teen years.

OP after 8 years, you and your DH should be parenting your children together. Asking your DH not to discipline your son at all is not the way to go if you are to treat all the children as children of the household (not as yours, and not his).

It's not clear what you are doing to properly discipline your son, however you and your DH need to sit down and agree on the strategy and stick to it. Your son is only 11, and there could be many more challenging times ahead as he goes through the teen years. Working against each other (it appears you undermined your DH with allowing your DS the lawn mowing after bad behaviour) will likely end up in the two of you splitting up. If you don't want that to happen in the near future, you need to address it now.

It does nothing to minimise "real" abuse, because it IS real abuse. It leaves scars and it hurts, and it damages people and their self esteem. It would be abuse if someone was doing it to their partner, and it is if it's an adult doing it to their kids.

Would you not think it’s even more damaging to let them carry on without telling them they are acting like a prick and would be best placed to have a long hard think about it? I’ve done this to my DH over the years when required and they have done it to me when required. I’m glad to have this pointed out if necessary to pull me up and give a chance to really think and reflect. That’s not abuse. On the super rare occasion we have probably even told each other that you are acting like a complete and utter cunt. And it’s been the truth. Either he has or I had and it’s best to be called out. Must admit in 25 years I’ve only ever said that to a kid once and they really were acting like a complete cunt and really needed to stop. Sometimes people need to hear thus. That’s not abuse.

Unfortunately my former work meant I had the displeasure of dealing with many parents and kids in stressful situations over the years and yes, some parents would call their kids pricks or indeed cunts in situations where it was completely inappropriate, unwarranted and abusive. There is a definite difference in scenarios.

@kirinm certainly not abuse but that would depend on really how frequently this is happening

@Wishforyou said He said it’s been twice in eight years and I said I’ve picked him up way more times than that on name calling. It happens a few times a month. It was just worse and louder yesterday

A few times a month. This poor child gets berated, and named called A FEW TIMES A MONTH, with escalation... and some are condoning it.

Op, you have to admit, that while your son may not be in therapy because of your husbands behaviour, it is certainly keeping him there, no?

You left your abuser, and replaced him with your son's abuser. There is no way that anyone here would advocate you staying with your abuser.

The reason he didn’t want a long conversation by the way is because he’s ashamed of himself Of course he is... that's why he keeps doing it.

OP does careful thoughtful considered work to help her son, she takes time to show him that he's important.
Her partner crushes and humiliates him in an instant.
he is such a weak character that he feels threatened by an 11-year old, he's working to crush him already so that he never gets to be that confident secure adult man who might usurp him

OP the advice you are getting here from some people is careless at best and damagingly hysterical at worst. You should not pit your son against your husband. Presumably, you believe your domestic setup has legs and is built to last or you want it to last. If your son feels like he can get away with bad behaviour with either adult or if your husband feels like he can’t take part in normal parenthood such as disciplining a child he has taken on than you are creating bigger problems for yourself.
Now, calling your son names gets your husband nowhere and he is being quite immature himself, but not abusive. You have to address your sons behaviour immediately or you will be next in the line of fire. At the same time you should talk with your husband to back off a little as the second parent but excluding him by asking him not to parent is not good. Presumably he is good to enough to do the parts of the parenting that suit you and your son i.e spend money on him, but not the disciplining him?

I used to have real problems with a short temper (unsurprisingly, it was probably because I was raised by a father who was extremely short-tempered and almost always angry). When my kids were difficult tantrummy toddlers and I was sleep deprived and just angry a lot, I lashed out at them a few times. I felt so guilty afterwards. Any adult who DOESN'T feel guilty about lashing out and being horrible to a child, you should be concerned about. And keeping away from your kids. Also I saw that the pattern was just going to repeat if I went on like that.

So I got therapy and professional help to control my anger and things got so much better. I did that because I accepted I had a problem and wanted to be a better parent to my children. If your DH doesn't want the same, then that's a big problem. If he can't admit that it's wrong and that he should be doing everything he can to stop (and by that I don't mean just saying "oh yeah I was wrong, I won't do it again" and then doing it again a week later. Trust me, I've been there, nothing changes) then you need to do what's best for your children, which means leaving him.

Nice people do not shout and bully children..especially those that need counselling/support at school...
I'm not saying he has to be a Saint...but he went after him into the garden.....

You really need to have your sons back but it seems like your happier to make excuses for an 'angry' man...what's going tk happen as the teenager years kick in...and more defiance and 'gobbiness' and god forbid the golden well behaved child misbehaves or does he just shout at boys?

I think I would be looking parenting courses for both of you because uou can't live in a house with split roles all the time that's not fair on anyone as the dc will push back on that

He should be ashamed but also needs to change..not run away from his responsibility to keep his temper

I've got a hell of a temper that I struggle to control, I've also got a 12 year old daughter who at moment, could politely be referred to as a prick.

And yet, somehow, I've never called her that, and she or my partner have no idea what my temper is like. Because I'm an adult, and I learnt years ago to control it.

Protect your child. A child can be disiplined without resorting to shouting or name calling

[quote Wishforyou]@AryaStarkWolf I have one who’s angelic and one who’s challenging. 🧐

@StarUtopia he still sees his biological dad, so no, we don’t call him ‘our’ son. But in all others ways he jointly parents. Some people are suggesting that I discipline alone going forward. I think this isn’t a bad idea actually.

@LovelyLovelyMe
I tell him his behaviour isn’t acceptable. I use distraction “oh i would love it if you help me with chopping the veg” (he loves to be involved). yesterday after this incident, I had got him mowing the lawn because he’s been desperate to do it, seeing it as a grown up thing to do. So I taught him how to start the mower, line up the rows etc. It was all going brilliantly and then my DH went out to have another pop at him.
I take him on long bike rides to get rid of his nervous energy, I do breathing exercises with him. He has counselling at school to build emotional resilience which is where a lot of the backchat comes from. A feeling of low self-worth. I tell him he’s beautiful, thoughtful (he is) and a fount of all knowledge (he loves facts) and pray that one day, it will all be okay. It’s been a painful, long journey. But I do think his behaviour and resilience are improving. He has so much going for him if only...has been the resounding sentence from his teachers throughout his life...I’m trying.[/quote]
‘...and then my DH went out and had another pop at him.’

Keep re reading this short segment of your post, OP. Now think how that feels as an 11 year old who is out mowing the lawn, probably feeling really chuffed that he is doing a good job.

It is really very sad and a sure fire way to rip apart a young person’s self esteem. Yes he is challenging, but so are the vast majority of pre teens.

Why did your DH go out and have a go at your son again? Had you already spoken to him at that point? Was this after he apologised.

For what its worth, if your son had just been rude / bratty (albeit not warranting being called a prick), given he has wanted to mow the lawn, you allowing him to do it was effectively a reward for his behaviour and you undermined your DH.

Your son is 11 and this dynamic will get worse. It did with my sister and her DP, as her eldest DS got older it was almost as the step father saw him as a challenge to his 'spot' as man of the house. belittled him, mocked him, constantly telling my sister that her DS was taking the mick and she wasnt disciplining him right. She didnt support her DS, her DS behaviour got worse as he got older and the cycle continued. Her DS left home at 16 and hasnt spoken to his mother since. If this doesnt stop your DS will likely move to his dads.

Your DS may be pushing boundaries as is normal when entering puberty and starting high school- your DS at age 11 is not a prick.

He already feels threatened and defensive and your son is only 11, as your son gets older he will find his presence more and more challenging and will seek to crush him because he won't be able to tolerate the presence of another near adult man in his territory

@differentnameforthis

As someone who is still struggling with low self esteem decades after an abusive childhood I wish I could 'like' your post.

Sons not sobs.🙄

A bit gobsmacked at the number of people who think it's ok to call their kids a prick. Seriously? What's wrong with telling them their behaviour is out of order? This is not a teen, he's 11.
OP, there are very few children who are just "bad", you know this, the school are doing their best to help your child and all their good work is being undermined at home. Your son does not feel safe and secure at home. Your partner tells you he's only gone too far twice, but you know it's much more than this. So are you going to carry on doing nothing, wringing your hands, or are you going to protect your child?

If someone was calling me those sorts of names several times a month my self esteem would be shot to pieces, along with my motivation to behave well for that person, my respect for that person and any chance that it wouldn't become my internal voice for life.
But it sounds like dh might be interested in change. I think he needs to engage with that or his position in sobs life should be under serious review.

I think you need to sit down and work out a way forward for dealing with situations where your DS pushes DH's buttons, because it keeps happening and the way your DH is dealing with it isn't effective, evidenced by the fact that it keeps happening.

@JinglingHellsBells Honestly, it's shocking how so many posters suggest breaking up this family where the son will have had 2 fathers by the time he is 12. How do you think that would affect him?

Erm... that his mum won't allow him to be treated like crap by a man?

Do you seriously think this lad needs to put up with being called names, in his home by this man just because YOU think it's not "good" to have 2 "fathers" by the time he is 12?

Do you really think that is more damaging than staying where he is spoken to like shit? Somewhere where he is already having therapy for low self worth?

He did not choose this. He does not get to choose to stay, or leave.

Do not keep underestimating the damage that living with this causes. This type of treatment, and his low self worth are gateways to self medicating. Or self harm.

You have no idea what you are advocating.

I would say 8 years of parenting shows your DH is "invested" rather than redecorating your DS's bedroom. OP, you don't paint a picture of a family unit. It seems to be you and the kids and then DH separate. That isn't a great set up especially after 8 years together.

I personally don't think the odd occasion of losing it a bit with a preteen who is answering back is that big a deal - certainly not abuse but that would depend on really how frequently this is happening. if it is frequent, I would be minded to agree that it is amounting to bullying or a form of emotional abuse but you have been really vague in your posts.

So I taught him how to start the mower, line up the rows etc. It was all going brilliantly and then my DH went out to have another pop at him.

That's massively crossing the line.

Saying something in anger is one thing (although it's not acceptable to be verbally abusive even in anger), but to seek out your son long after the fact to have another go at him? That's ridiculous.

What is his justification for that?

Remind him one day your son will be big enough to knock him the fuck out.

i wouldn't call it abusive as such, its certainly not good, and if your H can't handle a gobby 11yo, then perhaps he ought to step back and let you handle the discipline.

The bit that bothers me the most tbh, is where you said he went back outside to have another pop at your son.. why? That to me is borderline abusive behaviour, and something my EA exH used to do.. he couldn't drop stuff, he'd just bring it back up and upset me or the kids all over again!